CapsLock map delay

[gurgul]

I don't know the reason for the one-sec delay of the capslock map but I'd like to see it gone, i.e. delay removed, i.e. 0 sec



Gurgul

[FlatkinG]

as much as it does take time irl to pull out a map, i still find most the changes in 0.7 to make CQB(Close Quarter Battles) and MOUT(Military Operations in Urban Terrain) almost Imposible.. such as moving in a close group and trying to effectivly cover each other, i use the caps lock map check to see where me team mates are aiming, in real life u can hear your teams specific foot steps and use your peripheral vision to see where they are aiming, to make sure u have a effective line of sight, when it comes down to it, it destroys an element of teamwork and slows communication which is needed more in CQB then any other theatre of combat where death is iminent. i too would like to see it gone.

[mammikoura]

it's realistic and I really like it.
As for having trouble in cqb situations, you know what they say: practice makes perfect!

[Masaq]

I don't know the reason for the one-sec delay of the capslock map but I'd like to see it gone, i.e. delay removed, i.e. 0 sec



Gurgul

Clearly you've never tried to pull a map out of a zip-pouch or pocket, take it out of its protective case, unfold it, refold it in a different way so you can see another section, put it BACK into its plastic case, and then examine it for long enough to gain meaning from it on a rainy, windy day with 40mph gusts. Oh, and you have the option of doing it all with gloves on, which keeps your hands warm, or taking them off and having your fingers go numb.

I've not done it with someone firing live ammunition at me with the intent of killing me and the five guys I'm with, but I'm going to assume it's somewhat harder and even more stressful.

As such, having a slight delay between thinking "ooh, I'll check my map" and actually *reading* the damn map seems completely fine to me.

If anything, the delay should be upped to around 5-7 seconds to represent unzipping a pouch or your jacket front, reaching in and pulling out the map, and then assimilating the knowledge you've got of friendly positions etc onto the map.

If I were a player that found the map delay frustrating, I'd keep quiet about it in case players who find even a 2s delay somewhat unrealistic start campaigning for a LONGER delay to eliminate the game-y nature of the map as it now stands

[gurgul]

Point taken mate

Now that I read your answer and recall why I play PR - the realism, I realize I am still in a vanilla BF mood ...

There is an excuse though: I play PR for few days only.. and play BF since 1942... give me some time



Gurgul

[Rico]

The map delay wasnt even intentional afaik.. its a side effect of theother HUD changes.

[Heskey]

I think they just decided to leave it in, citing realism - Which is fair enough.

The map delay IIRC is hard-coded, and is the result of the invisible minimap spanning out to fill the page as it used to, before showing you the full map, thus creating this percieved 'delay'

[Masaq]

Point taken mate

Now that I read your answer and recall why I play PR - the realism, I realize I am still in a vanilla BF mood ...

There is an excuse though: I play PR for few days only.. and play BF since 1942... give me some time

Gurgul

No worries mate; glad you're enjoying the mod. Don't say you're in a vanilla mood- the fact you're playing the mod and taking the time to ask questions about it (and then realise how the answer effects how the mod should be played) shows that you're the kinda guy who should be playing it It's good to see!

Hope that you get used to it in time and keep on enjoying it

The map delay wasnt even intentional afaik.. its a side effect of theother HUD changes.

*grin* intentional or not, it's a good effect.

[Ninja2dan]

That kind of sucks if it was NOT intentional, as I was going to suggest keeping the current delay on showing the map, but add an additional 5 second delay before showing any units (if possible).

[Heskey]

Or even better; remove all units from the map including yourself.

I thought it was a map, not a GPS?

[frrankosuave]

Who's to say you don't have your map on your wrist in a clear cover? I've seen quarterbacks (real footballers) use this method of display all day long. If I knew I'd have to be referencing the damn thing every 10 seconds, I'd certainly come up with a solution like that IRL. Heck, I'd paste it on the *** of a squad mate if necessary...

[Mongolian_dude]

The map delay is there, because of the removal of the minimap. What used to happen, is there would be an animation of the mini expanding. Because it doesnt exist anymore, we see nothing for a second.
I think its for the btter this way, anyway.

...mongol...

[Raymond.Reiloff]

Point taken mate

Now that I read your answer and recall why I play PR - the realism, I realize I am still in a vanilla BF mood ...

There is an excuse though: I play PR for few days only.. and play BF since 1942... give me some time



Gurgul

and great point made mate

the passover from vBF2 to PR can take some time but as soon as you get into it my guess is, you are gonna start loving that it takes a while to pull out your map...

why? cause it can actually lead to greater teamwork.

i also had some issues with the removal of the minimap and the map delay when 0.7 was released, but now i wouldnt want it back.

cya on the battlefield

[Ninja2dan]

@Hesky: In real life you have the ability to contact any and all friendly units via radio comms within a couple of seconds, after which you simply ask their location and heading. You can also get details from them within a couple of extra seconds such as their objective(s).

This is not possible in PR, unless you want to spam the text chat. I don't know about you, but stopping my APC out in the middle of a combat zone, full of blood-thirsty troops in the back who place their lives in my hands, just to type a damn message that probably won't be read due to the spamming of text...Let's just say the friendly units on the map is a fair step towards balancing realism and game comms limitations. Also don't forget about aircraft having radar which is also not capable in PR, and armor units do have GPS with situational maps.

Who's to say you don't have your map on your wrist in a clear cover? I've seen quarterbacks (real footballers) use this method of display all day long. If I knew I'd have to be referencing the damn thing every 10 seconds, I'd certainly come up with a solution like that IRL. Heck, I'd paste it on the *** of a squad mate if necessary...

If you had a tactical AO map on your wrist, you'd need a microscope to read it. QB's can use such a map because their AO is small, military units use large maps with a lot of topo data that must remain clear, therefore the map size must not be reduced. In real life you do not reference your map so frequently, but you also have better vision and situational awareness than you do in PR. In the Army as well as in LE, I used to keep a similar wrist keeper. In the military I kept callsigns, frequencies, etc under the clear protective outer window. In LE, I kept callsigns, floorplans, names, etc in a similar cover. I also used to use something like that when I was learning how to use the MilDot scopes. This data was small and required little space, unlike a map.

I can see where you are coming from with the suggestion, but they are just too small.

[Bisclaveret]

Or even better; remove all units from the map including yourself.

I thought it was a map, not a GPS?

They've also yet to remove the 3D Map view. I don't know about you, but I don't have clear glasses/contacts/goggles with a realtime feed into the communications net to give me clear positions on attack and movement orders, or constantly updated distances to those orders/tactically important places.

(That rationale was used to remove the minimap, of course)

[Teek]

They've also yet to remove the 3D Map view. I don't know about you, but I don't have clear glasses/contacts/goggles with a realtime feed into the communications net to give me clear positions on attack and movement orders, or constantly updated distances to those orders/tactically important places.

(That rationale was used to remove the minimap, of course)

yea, but this is how your SL can lean over and point it out to you on the map or view .

[Heskey]

@Hesky: In real life you have the ability to contact any and all friendly units via radio comms within a couple of seconds, after which you simply ask their location and heading. You can also get details from them within a couple of extra seconds such as their objective(s).

This is not possible in PR, unless you want to spam the text chat. I don't know about you, but stopping my APC out in the middle of a combat zone, full of blood-thirsty troops in the back who place their lives in my hands, just to type a damn message that probably won't be read due to the spamming of text...Let's just say the friendly units on the map is a fair step towards balancing realism and game comms limitations. Also don't forget about aircraft having radar which is also not capable in PR, and armor units do have GPS with situational maps..

Sorry you spent so long typing that, but my response? VoIP.

Seriously, Devs! That's the next step; remove the 3d map and icons from the map - Make it litterally a map. The only thing we should see on there besides the necessities like landing zones, build orders and CAS orders, is Squad Leader markers to simulate squads marking on their maps where they need to be.

Seriously, pleeeeeeeeeeeease?!

[Ninja2dan]

Sorry you spent so long typing that, but my response? VoIP.

Seriously, Devs! That's the next step; remove the 3d map and icons from the map - Make it litterally a map. The only thing we should see on there besides the necessities like landing zones, build orders and CAS orders, is Squad Leader markers to simulate squads marking on their maps where they need to be.

Seriously, pleeeeeeeeeeeease?!

The in-game VOIP system will not allow proper communications that would be present in real life. Even paintballers with a Wal-mart walkie-talkie have better communications than this game allows. And from all I have read from DEV posts, that is hard-coded and impossible to change. So until I can directly communicate with other squads, I see a need for placing markers on the map of friendly units.

[gurgul]

Agree on most and disagree in some points.

I mean don't go too far in realism. It is still a game. Yes, simulation but yet to be playable. Anyhow, I bet you devs had long and tough intradev discussions on this. It's an old issue: realism/gameplay balancing

On removing 3D map (@Heskey): Yep, VOIP (or Vent or TS for that matter) is the ultimate solution. Forget about the text chat! And this is exactly the reason NOT to remove 3D map and make the map merely a map per se: speaking language issue! Yes I know writing/reading english but speaking?! OMG Almost every squad I join is international and most of the time we ask each other "what? say again? where? who?" If I have to tell my squad mates where I am at the moment or where is that sneaky sniper ******* I have to explain the map and all the objects: the house, the trees, the bush, the distance, to left, half-left, etc. It's hard to do if not impossible (language!). And this is a gameplay issue only: in reality you would go some language practice before enter the battle

I hope it make sense.. You know, language

Oh btw, on the map delay: I found this delay makes me more precise and carefull: go at some safe place, open map.. look, report, think, plan, remember, feel the battle, etc. Lol, nice side effect

Gurgul