Grappling hooks

[BloodBane611]

From FM 3-06.11 COMBINED ARMS OPERATIONS IN URBAN TERRAIN.

3-10. USE OF GRAPPLING HOOK

The use of a grappling hook and rope to ascend into a building is not recommended. Experimentation and training has determined that using the grappling hook and rope to ascend is extremely difficult for the average soldier, and makes a unit more likely to fail their mission. Grappling hooks are still a viable tool for accomplishing the following tasks:

*Clearing concertina or other tangle wire.
*Clearing obstacles or barricades that may be booby trapped.
*Descending to lower floors.

I'm not intending to argue that the current use of Grappling Hooks is unrealistic and therefore should be removed. I believe that grappling hooks on maps like 7 gates and Al Basrah add a great amount of depth to the game by simulating things like ladders etc.

I would like to focus on this:

Clearing concertina or other tangle wire.

I see grappling hooks being very useful in this respect, as teams use concertina wire in PR to create choke points and to keep enemy infantry from penetrating a perimeter. Allowing grappling hooks to clear the wire gives squads more tactical flexibility, allowing them to choose their direction and timing of attack better.

Also, when searching for grappling hook threads, I found this. (*NOTE* Fuzz is replying to a suggestion that grappling hooks be made destroyable)

well bf2 sort of treats a grapple hook like it is a vehicle (i think )

so setting the HP of the grapple to very low so a knife can destroy it, who knows???

good suggestion will investigate more...

I was just wondering if it had been investigated more, as there were no further comments on it.

[Sgt_Canadian_Floss]

It may be hard to do with the engine (the clearing concertina part), but it shounldt be hardcoded.
For the destroyability part...I've always wonder why ennemy or friendlie soldiers that dont normaly have a grapple in their kit cant pick it up.

[Raniak]

It may be hard to do with the engine (the clearing concertina part), but it shounldt be hardcoded.
For the destroyability part...I've always wonder why ennemy or friendlie soldiers that dont normaly have a grapple in their kit cant pick it up.

So, what about giving the Grappling Hook to every kits but with 0 "ammo" so they can still pick it up, and once they pick it up it give them 1 "ammo" so they can use it themselves ?

[Valtasar]

So, what about giving the Grappling Hook to every kits but with 0 "ammo" so they can still pick it up, and once they pick it up it give them 1 "ammo" so they can use it themselves ?

That way avery one can reload it at any time.

[Expendable Grunt]

This falls under giving troops the ability to cut wire -- it makes it useless to deploy.

[Ninja2dan]

The statement made in FM 3-06.11 is based on common soldier loadout versus tactical advantage.

1) A soldier scaling the exterior of a building, in ascention, would be a slow target in open view. This makes the soldier an easy target, and will cause heavy exertion (see below).

This is why it states that descention via grapple is still ok, as a fast rappel exerts minimal energy compared to a climb, and it can be done much faster thereby limiting troop exposure.

2) Typical soldier combat load is not light-weight, and climbing up a rope with even the most basic of gear/ammo/weapon will require high levels of energy and strength. Plus rappelling without belay or counter-line can result in serious injury or death, probably making the risk not worth the effort.

3) Most circumstances in MOUT to ascend a building will have said soldier using interior access methods, such as stairs, ladders, or loop-holes. If there is no immediate access to the roof, weapons or explosives can be used to make an access point. This technique is practiced for walls as well. It's not uncommon to see a Bradley punch a whole through a building to allow troops rapid entry. Interior movement provides cover and concealment that exterior ascention does not.

4) Grapple devices (as well as rappelling gear) are not common issue, in fact they are normally only issued to mountain troops or SpecOp teams. Kern rope is sometimes issued to line vehicles, but hardly used for rappelling exercises.

So I guess what I'm saying is that the present method of using grapple hooks in PR is not fully realistic, but it was already there before and it helps to serve as a temporary means of access to counter game limitations. In real life I could easily climb on top of many rooftops that are in the game, but climbing is not a function in BF2. The grapple helps to counter that fact. As long as they aren't adding stuff that is unrealistic, then I think we're ok with it for now. At least until someone can figure out how to make grunts climb walls and obstacles like a real human.

[BloodBane611]

helps to serve as a temporary means of access to counter game limitations.

Yeah, that's basically what I was trying to say.


Back on topic: What do people think about allowing grappling hooks to be used to destroy wire?

And @ the DEVs: Is it possible to make the grappling hooks destroyable?

[Symplify]

So, what about giving the Grappling Hook to every kits but with 0 "ammo" so they can still pick it up, and once they pick it up it give them 1 "ammo" so they can use it themselves ?

I'd imagine it takes mad skill to actually effectively use a grappling hook (every time as well ) so I'm not so sure that any soldier who went "Oh, look, a grappling hook, yoink! Lets climb this wall!" could do it...

[Rudd]

Keeping the grappling hook specific to certain kits is good, promoted teamplay and it more realistic- man's got enough to carry without the hook he may or may not need.

Don't hold me to this, but I'm sure I tried destroying a hook on seven gates months ago, it wouldn't go away. Eventually it disappeared. that was 0.5 however

[DarkTalon]

if you have a mountaineer kit, you're an engineer, now correct me if i'm wrong, but don't engineers have explosives?

[bullock]

Keeping the grappling hook specific to certain kits is good, promoted teamplay and it more realistic- man's got enough to carry without the hook he may or may not need.

Don't hold me to this, but I'm sure I tried destroying a hook on seven gates months ago, it wouldn't go away. Eventually it disappeared. that was 0.5 however

the guy that laid it probs died so it will disappear after a set amount of time.

[BloodBane611]

if you have a mountaineer kit, you're an engineer, now correct me if i'm wrong, but don't engineers have explosives?

Yes. But it's wasteful and not very stealthy to blow the **** out of some wire, especially when a unit that is equipped with these in the field is probably going to use them to clear wire. Given, not many units are going to need that capability in a militia/insurgent situation, but in a full on war with GB facing china I think it's reasonable to assume that this would be a valuable and much used tool.