G3 is stuffed

householddog · Post by **householddog** » 2008-01-18 10:00

I apologise if it seemed like I was talking about someone in this thread it was more general observation.
Back to the topic though. I think the recoil on the g3 is surely a little too high as it is. If i had a gun with that much recoil on it I am sure I would tie a sandbag to its muzzle.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-18 13:42

Bare in mind that EA/Dice had a full on paid testing team and they still released despite the fact that you could write a novel about the exploits, bugs and balace issues it shipped with.

Ah Jay, you keep the funny alive. And in perspective.

Anyhow, this was not a constructive post, but I think he gets the idea guys. We feel that the G3 is "stuffed" and therefore should be fixed. Without telling the DEVs they suck, and having them call some friends in the military to blow our house up.

icehollow · Post by **icehollow** » 2008-01-18 14:11

I think some people need to realize the dev's are well aware the recoil is far too high compared to their real life counterparts, it was done for gameplay purposes.

Besides look at it this way, you all brought this on yourself, if you hadn't been running around and then just insta proning and spamming autofire, this would have never have happened

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-01-18 14:40

householddog wrote: These guns are meant to be fired on full auto. I a fairly sure they would be designed so at least 2 bullets could possibly hit at 5 meters. At the moment it would be lucky for one to.

I guess I was born lucky

YouTube - Heckler & Koch G3 Top Gun

householddog wrote: If i had a gun with that much recoil on it I am sure I would tie a sandbag to its muzzle.

I saw that recently, a shooting range and the guys had tied their kit bags to the end of the guns as they were being fired. I'll have to try and find it

icehollow · Post by **icehollow** » 2008-01-18 14:51

Sabre_tooth_tigger wrote:I guess I was born lucky

YouTube - Heckler & Koch G3 Top Gun

I saw that recently, a shooting range and the guys had tied their kit bags to the end of the guns as they were being fired. I'll have to try and find it

omg what server is that, i wanna know where people play that badly so i can get some freebie kills. Seriously, wow, playing like vanilla BF2 they were, focused on one area, bad movement choices, never checking their rear or corners, no covering, just bad.

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-01-18 15:27

Yea true, fraps wrecks my fps so badly that I would not record in a normal game but it was just a random european server
I have found a better recording program now so hopefully next time I will play EJOD on a full TG server against a proper pub team.

Check out the recoil on this ar-15, one handed he fires 100 rounds off in 7 seconds?

YouTube - AR-15 with 100 round drum

Post by **Masaq** » 2008-01-19 04:15

That video was hilarious... lonewolf firing an entire mag at every single enemy soldier lol. Seriously Sabre, is that you?!

For the OP:

Learn to shoot single, accurate, shots at long-medium range and how to control recoil at close range.

I can use a *single* mag to kill two+ guys from 5m away, using 4x optics on the G3, whilst crouching. Done it several times in the Kashan bunkers. Last shot usually hits the ceiling but the tangos go down.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-19 09:14

Has anyone in here thats complaining about the G3 recoil actually fired a G3 or at least a .308win round(7.62x51)?

icehollow · Post by **icehollow** » 2008-01-19 09:44

VipersGhost wrote:Has anyone in here thats complaining about the G3 recoil actually fired a G3 or at least a .308win round(7.62x51)?

I've fired .308 winchester, but I'm not complaining. As I said before the recoils are gameplay related, think of it as karma for dickheads ruining the gameplay in 0.6 by running around spam proning. Now they're sorta forced to take a more careful route.

kilroy0097 · Post by **kilroy0097** » 2008-01-19 11:25

Comments aside, the AK47 is more effective at close and far range than the current G3, from personal observation. 7.62 x 39mm round in the AK-47, effective range 300m. 7.62 x 51mm round in the G3, effective range 100-400m depending on sights.

In the game, AK-47 has less kick and is more effective at both close and far range. Better accuracy from what I have experienced. The G3 supposedly does more damage but who cares if you can't even hit a target. Since the AK has much less of a kick than the G3 you can put more rounds down range. In the game.

Now let me show you some footage that shows exactly how the G3 and AK-47 operate and their supposed kick. Remember that everyone in the game is standard military and many many hours of practice and experience with the assault rifle they are carrying. That being said it's safe to assume they can aim effectively and control the recoil of the weapon.

AK-47 Firing Footage - Civilian - Military
G3 Firing Footage - Military - Trained

While there is a kick for both weapons you can plainly see that skill and control make remove a significant portion of the recoil. Plainly the game shows that the MEC troops using the weapon are completely untrained and do not know how to properly fire nor compensate for recoil. Even in a prone or crouched position. While I realize I am not the only complaining about the G3 operation in PR, I thought some actual footage may help drive it home that a change is needed badly.

Cheers.

BTW here is a YouTube video all about the recoil of the AK-47 vs M-16. Interesting. Actually shows just how bad the AK-47 is in accuracy compared to the M-16. Bigger bullet so that makes sense. So the G3 is supposedly more accurate and long range than the AK-47. That makes sense. Please portray that in the game.

Post by **Spec** » 2008-01-19 11:49

Just make the G3 more accurate. The recoil is okay for balancing imo, but then there should at least be the same accurazy as for the 5.56' - but well, i'm just repeating myself. The devs announced a changelog for the next update already, lets wait for it. I'm sure they will change something about the G3.

General Dragosh · Post by **General Dragosh** » 2008-01-19 11:57

kilroy0097 wrote:

G3 Firing Footage - Trained

This is a HK33 its a 5,56x45 NATO so ahem !

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2008-01-19 15:41

Gah... I have to say the G3 is just plain awful in CQC scenarios. Holy smokes, we had waves of people infiltrating the bunkers on Kashan Desert, but most of us were outdone by a single U.S soldier, only due to the fact that most of bullets went straight to the ceiling. The recoil could use some reduction, but it should remain relatively high in comparison to its' counterparts. Deviation should be less if anything.

What would be nice, would be to have an extra kit for the MEC spawn list (A CQC/CQB kit). Something along the lines of an iron sighted Ak-101.

DeePsix · Post by **DeePsix** » 2008-01-19 16:14

The G3 seems close to real to me. The deviation just needs to be tweaked here and there. The only problem I've run across is the fact I can hit someone standing in front of me at 25ft. It's just a matter of tweaking some variables and I'm sure it's already been addressed.

Post by **Masaq** » 2008-01-20 01:41

kilroy0097 wrote: While there is a kick for both weapons you can plainly see that skill and control make remove a significant portion of the recoil. Plainly the game shows that the MEC troops using the weapon are completely untrained and do not know how to properly fire nor compensate for recoil. Even in a prone or crouched position. While I realize I am not the only complaining about the G3 operation in PR, I thought some actual footage may help drive it home that a change is needed badly.

And you have plainly missed the fact that PR recoil isn't controlled by the player's avatar/character.

YOU, the PLAYER, are supposed to control it.

If you're spraying shots everywhere with the G3, it's because you're the untrained and do not know how to properly fire nor compensate for recoil, even when in a prone of crouched position.

Why can't people get this simple fact? Seriously, it's very simple:

RECOIL IN GAMES DOES NOT LOOK REALISTIC BECAUSE PLAYERS ARE SUPPOSED TO CONTROL IT.

If the game automatically brought the sights back onto the target for you, what's the point in having players? You might as well be playing against bots.

The point is, that we're human. All of us behave ever so slightly different and add an interesting new point to the gameplay; that of human error.

If there's two guys firing at each other with full auto, IRL, at 30m who will win? The guy who controls his recoil better, that's who.

If there's two guys firing at each other with full auto, in PR, at 30m, who will win? The guy who controls his recoil better, that's who.

If you limit recoil from the guns (G3 in particular), and get those two guys to face each other in PR, at 30m, who will win? Whichever sucker happens to fire first, and that's NOT how it should be.

(And yes, I'm aware I've grossly oversimplified combat conditions etc etc etc, but suck it up; I'm making a point only, NOT issuing discourse on battlefield infantry tactics).

Oldirti · Post by **Oldirti** » 2008-01-20 03:06

I don't think this is really about whether or not the G3 has a design flaw, this is mainly an issue of balance, and it's quite clear...

.6 - for what ever reason the G3 completely owned the M16 (obvious)
.7 - for what ever reason the m16 owns the G3 (appearant after playing countless games)

The M16 has superior CBQ firing, and despite having less recoil, it also seems to have less deviation which is my main gripe. Prehaps the added deviation is a sideeffect of the recoil, but I don't know. I do know that if a balancing issue isn't thrown away/locked within the first page, then it must be an issue

SMOKE911 · Post by **SMOKE911** » 2008-01-20 05:19

RHYS4190 wrote:You made the M16 into a one of the best guns ever depicted in a video game it looks absolutly fantastic.

Devs latest patch you went a little bit over board with the G3, it bucks like your firing an elephant gun, the accuracy is now not so good could not good.

I agree 100%

[R-MOD]Masaq wrote:And you have plainly missed the fact that PR recoil isn't controlled by the player's avatar/character.

YOU, the PLAYER, are supposed to control it.

If you're spraying shots everywhere with the G3, it's because you're the untrained and do not know how to properly fire nor compensate for recoil, even when in a prone of crouched position.

Why can't people get this simple fact? Seriously, it's very simple:

RECOIL IN GAMES DOES NOT LOOK REALISTIC BECAUSE PLAYERS ARE SUPPOSED TO CONTROL IT.

If the game automatically brought the sights back onto the target for you, what's the point in having players? You might as well be playing against bots.

The point is, that we're human. All of us behave ever so slightly different and add an interesting new point to the gameplay; that of human error.

If there's two guys firing at each other with full auto, IRL, at 30m who will win? The guy who controls his recoil better, that's who.

If there's two guys firing at each other with full auto, in PR, at 30m, who will win? The guy who controls his recoil better, that's who.

If you limit recoil from the guns (G3 in particular), and get those two guys to face each other in PR, at 30m, who will win? Whichever sucker happens to fire first, and that's NOT how it should be.

(And yes, I'm aware I've grossly oversimplified combat conditions etc etc etc, but suck it up; I'm making a point only, NOT issuing discourse on battlefield infantry tactics).

please check out Weapon Accuracy Thread.

Post by **Spec** » 2008-01-20 13:24

*cough* edit button *cough*

I totaly agree about the player controlled recoil part, and i love that part of PR. If you compare the G3 of PR and the G3 of vBF2 *laughs* While you're doing nothing but pray and spray in vanilla, you can finaly control the gun in PR, so yes, player controlled recoil, even hard recoil, is great, i love it. The devation part is what annoys me about the G3. Its unbalanced AND unrealistic to be less accurate. But i think the devs know that and are working on it. The G3 should be "worse" than the M16 in close distances and "better" on longer distances imo. The MECs need to get away from the USMC troops, while the marines have to get close to the MECs. Thats a kind of balance i like, both guns - and so both troops - have strong and weak points and you got to find out how to use the gun in the best way, and for a G3 that should imo be shooting from a distance - but thats why it needs to be at least as accurate as the 5.56's.

But i'm only repeating myself again, i even said that in my last post... The endless discussions are annoying me too, but i cant stop pointing out why the G3's accurazy sucks right now, i'm sorry^^

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-20 18:13

Well right now the G3 is effectively worse than the M16 at all ranges, but yeah the DEVs know it and I'm sure are testing corrections.

Prehaps the added deviation is a sideeffect of the recoil, but I don't know.

They are separate values, the only real advantage the G3 has now is that it doesn't lose damage out to 400 meters.

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-01-21 10:57

G3 kills in two body shots also I think.

How close is the g3 to a fn fal