L86 LSW

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-02-07 21:25

The Minimi is to replace the L86 LSW but is PR adding the L86 anyway and if not/so why?

Post by **Evilhomer** » 2006-02-08 07:51

L86, Sa80A2, Minimi, L85 +UGL, possibly even the carbine should all be ingame, However, don't quote me on that.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-02-08 09:19

L86 that thing is more sniper then LSW.

(well i would snipe with it)

what are the different fireing modes on it??

jezzzy · Post by **jezzzy** » 2006-02-08 14:27

isnt the minimi just a SAW with a massive scope on it? :S

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-02-08 14:38

Minimi is supposedly a para version of the SAW, meaning its just had some of the fat trimmed off it. eg barrel length, stock is colapsable etc. As for the scope, it is possible to mount scopes on them.

Also, I read some where the LSW was be considered as a marksman rifle because of its accuracy and yes, it does have selectbale fire modes (Semi and Full).
Only major diferrence between the SA80 and the LSW is its barrel lenght and the inclussion of a bipod.

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-02-08 16:27

hold on a second.... i thought minimi is the original version of M249 that was made by FN, while the M249 SAW is the version that the US armed forces requested. Because i remember that there was a para minimi. And as far as i know the only visible physical difference between the two is the lack of heat shield on minimi and a different buttstock. There are other differences on internal parts as well but i forgot what modification was made for SAW.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-02-08 16:39

But the SA80 is one of the most accurate assult rifles to date - Infact it proberly is, the LSW is just a support version that ended up sniper version, But of corse its being recycled into SA80's now.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-02-08 20:36

Zepheris Casull wrote:hold on a second.... i thought minimi is the original version of M249 that was made by FN, while the M249 SAW is the version that the US armed forces requested. Because i remember that there was a para minimi. And as far as i know the only visible physical difference between the two is the lack of heat shield on minimi and a different buttstock. There are other differences on internal parts as well but i forgot what modification was made for SAW.

That is correct. The earlier model FN Minimi had a fixed tubular, skeleton buttstock. When it was selected as the XM249 SAW, changes to the base design requested. Some of these earlier Minimis were seen in use in Operation Desert Storm with US forces alongside the few production M249s that had made it into the field. Now the FN Minimi has the same pattern buttstock used on the M249.

The Minimi-Para is now designated the L110A1 in UK service, but was used by the SAS in ODS and likely through that decade in the former Yugoslavia and Sierra Leone.

jezzzy · Post by **jezzzy** » 2006-02-08 22:31

yeah man the scopes are sexyyyyy

, fat *** ones too.(another difference with the LSW to SA80 is it has the back butt handle (which makes it unbelievably easy to control when firing), and the hand gaurd is slightly different.

Xeno426 · Post by **Xeno426** » 2006-02-09 05:33

Pence wrote:But the SA80 is one of the most accurate assult rifles to date - Infact it proberly is, the LSW is just a support version that ended up sniper version, But of corse its being recycled into SA80's now.

It became a sniper because, as a LSW it was a complete joke. How can it be a support weapon with only 30 rounds? On top of that, it jams like crazy if used in full auto, so it's pretty much limited to semi. The whole SA-80 family is bugged with field reliability issues that harken to the days of the M16 in Vietnam.

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg37-e.htm

asiLLasiTgets · Post by **asiLLasiTgets** » 2006-02-09 05:37

Zepheris Casull wrote:hold on a second.... i thought minimi is the original version of M249 that was made by FN, while the M249 SAW is the version that the US armed forces requested. Because i remember that there was a para minimi. And as far as i know the only visible physical difference between the two is the lack of heat shield on minimi and a different buttstock. There are other differences on internal parts as well but i forgot what modification was made for SAW.

correct.... The minimi is the FN model in production for various countries and police orginizations. One other difference is the ability to be clip fed i.e. m16 clips, and belt fed... Where a M249 can only be belt fed.

Xeno426 · Post by **Xeno426** » 2006-02-09 05:43

I believe you have that backwards. The M249 and the Minimi can accept both box and belt ammo systems. The Minimi Para, which is the paratrooper version, cannot use box style ammo.

asiLLasiTgets · Post by **asiLLasiTgets** » 2006-02-09 05:50

Xeno426 wrote:It became a sniper because, as a LSW it was a complete joke. How can it be a support weapon with only 30 rounds? On top of that, it jams like crazy if used in full auto, so it's pretty much limited to semi. The whole SA-80 family is bugged with field reliability issues that harken to the days of the M16 in Vietnam.

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg37-e.htm

That is the truth.... Every one I have ever shot jams like crazy.......Same for the FAMAS. The only bullpub I like...That is functional in full auto as well as semi is the AUG, it is a great gun. Though I am not a fan of the bullpub design. I much prefer the HK, Colt, and IMI product lines. I have only had one malfunction with my M4 carbine, and that was when I unloaded a beta c-mag through it on full auto. I melted my extractor spring.... other than that no problems. I have never had a malfunction with any HK's or IMI weapons. The one thing I do like about the SA80 family is the SUSAT, But there are optics just as good or better for sale that can be mounted on your weapon of choice. I would never use a SA80 lsw as a sniper rifle.... Why use that piece of ****, when you can use the AI L96a1.

asiLLasiTgets · Post by **asiLLasiTgets** » 2006-02-09 05:55

Xeno426 wrote:I believe you have that backwards. The M249 and the Minimi can accept both box and belt ammo systems. The Minimi Para, which is the paratrooper version, cannot use box style ammo.

Yeah you are right. I mixed them up. I was thinking of the para for some reason.thanks

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-02-09 08:09

asiLLasiTgets wrote:Yeah you are right. I mixed them up. I was thinking of the para for some reason.thanks

you can put M16 mags in on of them i can't rememeber what type of m249 takes them.

jezzzy · Post by **jezzzy** » 2006-02-09 10:23

asiLLasiTgets wrote:That is the truth.... Every one I have ever shot jams like crazy.......Same for the FAMAS. The only bullpub I like...That is functional in full auto as well as semi is the AUG, it is a great gun. Though I am not a fan of the bullpub design. I much prefer the HK, Colt, and IMI product lines. I have only had one malfunction with my M4 carbine, and that was when I unloaded a beta c-mag through it on full auto. I melted my extractor spring.... other than that no problems. I have never had a malfunction with any HK's or IMI weapons. The one thing I do like about the SA80 family is the SUSAT, But there are optics just as good or better for sale that can be mounted on your weapon of choice. I would never use a SA80 lsw as a sniper rifle.... Why use that piece of ****, when you can use the AI L96a1.

You'd use an LSW because it has 30 rounds, and the 96 is bolt action, depending on the kind of marksman role your carrying out, you could be looking to spend alot of rounds rapidly.

And i don't know if you fired the A2 versions of the weapons, but post about the SA80 family been unreliable etc is un justified. The A2 passed as one the the BEST AR's in the world, in both accuracy and reliability. you may be a fan off bullpub, but for urban warfare which seems to be the kind we see most these days its an asset.

I spent a good couple of hours at a range with an LSW in busrts and it jammed about once. and that was my fault for spreading a whole mag out. Its a rediculously accurate weapon, as is the sa80, and the A2 has been praised in media sinec operations in iraq.

asiLLasiTgets · Post by **asiLLasiTgets** » 2006-02-09 10:46

I shot an A2 version and it was almost brand new. It was brought in as a DEMO gun for Law Enforcement. I never said it is not accurate. It is just that it jams all the time. If I am sniping I will hit whatever I am shooting at with one round, but I won't engage multiple targets with a sniper rifle. If I had to choose a sa80 variant it would never be the LSW, too big. I will put it to you like this If the SA 80 family was such a good weapon why don't the best Special forces orginization in the world use them ( I am refering to the SAS)? I will tell you why because it is a piece of ****. That is why the sas employ MP5's in CQB, Diemaco rifles (with or with out grenade launchers) in a general combat role, AK-47's in other parts of the world where AK-47's are indigenous, and are considering adopting the G36 family to replace the Diemaco's. The SAS want stuff that will work, and national pride in a weapon made in the UK is not enough to make them risk thier lives with a rifle that is sub par at best. Because the UK defense budget is so tight they can not afford to get rid of the SA80 family, they are stuck with them and I feel sorry for them for that reason. It tells you somthing when the gun is completely out of production. After they filled the order for the UK, they got no other orders. A trait shared only with the makers of the FAMAS.

Post by **Evilhomer** » 2006-02-09 12:01

asiLLasiTgets wrote:I shot an A2 version and it was almost brand new. It was brought in as a DEMO gun for Law Enforcement. I never said it is not accurate. It is just that it jams all the time. If I am sniping I will hit whatever I am shooting at with one round, but I won't engage multiple targets with a sniper rifle. If I had to choose a sa80 variant it would never be the LSW, too big. I will put it to you like this If the SA 80 family was such a good weapon why don't the best Special forces orginization in the world use them ( I am refering to the SAS)? I will tell you why because it is a piece of ****. That is why the sas employ MP5's in CQB, Diemaco rifles (with or with out grenade launchers) in a general combat role, AK-47's in other parts of the world where AK-47's are indigenous, and are considering adopting the G36 family to replace the Diemaco's. The SAS want stuff that will work, and national pride in a weapon made in the UK is not enough to make them risk thier lives with a rifle that is sub par at best. Because the UK defense budget is so tight they can not afford to get rid of the SA80 family, they are stuck with them and I feel sorry for them for that reason. It tells you somthing when the gun is completely out of production. After they filled the order for the UK, they got no other orders. A trait shared only with the makers of the FAMAS.

asiLLasiTgets< :shrk:

>MoD

asiLLasiTgets · Post by **asiLLasiTgets** » 2006-02-09 18:14

I am sure evilhomer has had plenty of trigger time with the SA80 Family, and I am sure he knows all about the fact that the rear upper receiver and trigger mechanism housing are made with such poor strength that you could squeeze the sides together and prevent the bolt carrier from travelling , or that he top cover on the reciever is so flimsily that it would open randomly during firing, or that the magazine release catch would often release itself when making contact with your any of your other gear, and that the majority of the wieght on this design is in the rear of the reciever not helping recoil at all, There are a few other major issues with the feeding and extraction as well. I think the UK would have been better off sticking with the L1a1 or adopting the Diemaco, I hope that they adopt a G36 or somthing like it from HK ( which is what is rumored). For the $ 690.80 they spent per a rifle to upgrade to the A2 variant, they would have been much better off adopting a new weapons system. I have'nt a clue of what the UK MOD was thinking.

Peter-SAS · Post by **Peter-SAS** » 2006-02-09 18:59

asiLLasiTgets wrote: I have'nt a clue of what the UK MOD was thinking.

its a common pattern of british life at the moment. The MoD are a bunch of clowns who couldn't give an arse about the welfare of our troops. Just balancing the books, and they can't even do that.