0.71 update: will the change to helos be undone?

101 bassdrive · Post by **101 bassdrive** » 2008-01-20 17:35

I cant get along with the new decent speed, it has more negative sides to it than positive.
in BF2 aswell as PR, there is no task where you have to tap a button in order to succeed. that the effect comes in delayed makes it even harder to controll and therefor worse.
furthermore, the new decent speed makes certain movements impossible since you cant stabilize the helo midair, be this in the circle movement or while diving. instead of slowly halting midair, you lose all airspeed you got and drop in manner which is really akward.
now, I can understand that the change might come in handy to some pilots since they now can decent faster to the LZ and so survive.
the only thing is though, you could achieve this with the old layout aswell, even safer. you dived, pulled the nose up and landed. just like a swift insertion is done RL.
the change really bothers me, through it the ah6 has been nerfed down significant. I understand it loses its rockets on most maps, I would kill apc's on first sight and tanks in 2-3 runs and therefor unbalance the map, so I can deal with that.
but adding such a odd change to it, and all other helos, which only suits less capable pilots is regretable and frustrating.
please change it back to the old setting.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-20 17:48

This thread discusses the helicopter changes in .7:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f200-p ... end-3.html

Overall I'm sure the helicopter physics will be tweaked in the future, but they were not realistic before, and I don't think many people really want the old system.

Alex6714 · Post by **Alex6714** » 2008-01-20 18:05

I can´t understand why the choppers needed the change in the first place tbh.

markonymous · Post by **markonymous** » 2008-01-20 18:09

i say we keep it as it is but if its possible add another button that stabilizes the chopper.

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2008-01-20 20:40

The decending would be OK, if the chopter wouldnt act weird while you are doing it... It tends to bank to the right when you pull the mouse to your left and vice versa.

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2008-01-20 20:54

I think its okey right now but it still needs to be tweaked.. The chines attack chopper and the US cobra flys good in my opinion. However i have no idea if they are as irl.

Alex6714 · Post by **Alex6714** » 2008-01-20 21:52

Try this: Bank right a bit (easiest to see in BH), then turn the throttle down. Watch as you lose all other control. That is what I hate.

Zrix · Post by **Zrix** » 2008-01-20 22:08

Yes, you get something like the plane taxi manouvering while decending in the chopper. Extremely annoying, and I often find myself going in with the throttle on idle instead(taking forever though) just to get some control.

Post by **sofad** » 2008-01-20 22:28

the problem on decending the choppers and the bad controls when you do so is because of the way the choppers work in BF2.
choppers have some inclined invisible wings attached with some upforce to stabilize the helo while pressing positive throttle (W). we used reverse throttle for the faster decline speed, but when the chopper declines, these wing forces work in the wrong direction, so you end up with interchnaged controls and a strange behavior in general.
we have to live with that, if we want faster decline speeds as in 0.6...

101 bassdrive · Post by **101 bassdrive** » 2008-01-20 22:43

'[R-DEV wrote: we have to live with that, if we want faster decline speeds as in 0.6...

I cherish the work of you DEVs to the highest. but does this, at bottom, realistic aspect of a faster decent speed have to stay if it has such grave side effects to it?

Cp · Post by Cp » 2008-01-20 23:28

I love the new decent speed, I would say that I have mastered it completely, now I can pop up over a hill and go down behind it just as fast as I could pop up. Same with landings, its now allot easier to land in tight spots as you can hover above it and decent straight down.

In 0.6 the S button almost had a reverse effect on decent, this was very much noticeable on Qwai where the Attack LB could dive straight down on a tank or apc and thanks to the S key it for some reason actually was more steady and descended much slower than it would without holding S, I hated this, The few times I spent in the AH-6 I would avoid using this tactic as much as possible because to me its just as lame as instaproning.

Now if we only could get some deviation on the M134s' on the AH-6 since right now they have zero deviation meaning that its like having a sniper rifle fireing at 900 rounds per minute bolted to each side of the bird. the miniguns lack of ability to spray targets combined with the insanely fast reload speed of the hydra rockets meant that the rockets where used as a primary weapon against everything and the miniguns were left unused. Though I haven’t played zatar enough to actually see if the hydras antitank capabilities are still a problem or not.

Anyways kudos to whoever made the changes to the physics so far, IMO they have never been better.

/Cp

jayceon515 · Post by **jayceon515** » 2008-01-20 23:36

Is it somehow possible to reduce the decent speed for about 30-40%? The old settings weren't very good but the current ones aren't much better TBH. I as an experienced transport helo pilot found it challenging to land, drop people and leave in less than 5 seconds but it was possible. Right now there is no way to land under 5 seconds and drop people + get away in less than 10 which makes you an easy target and in addition you always take damage. If you're landing more carefully and slowly you hardy ever touch the ground without getting the "you were killed" message unless dropping people off somewhere in the corner of the map where there isn't anything going on.
I'm not saying that higher decent speed is bad but right now you don't have to be shot down to fall from the sky like a rock.

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2008-01-20 23:42

i never had any problems with landing

unrealalex · Post by **unrealalex** » 2008-01-21 00:37

can't you make it so it descends faster during the 20%-1% throttle range?
Because right now, the merlin for example, even if you're at 1% and not pressing S, it barely descends. You press S and it drops like a rock.

101 bassdrive · Post by **101 bassdrive** » 2008-01-21 00:39

YouTube - BO105 helicopter aerobatics

a stable dive can performed without significant speed increase,
for a certain amount of time. you cant really call that an engine exploit like instaprone cp..
Ive searched for a youtube video which proves the argument that helos can verticaly land as fast as they do now. I couldnt find any. if somebody finds one I stand corrected.

EDIT: HELL they CAN do those silly moves theyre able to ingame
YouTube - bo-105 show
OMG thats insane xD they can do even more than ingame

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-21 06:39

I dont think a chopper drops such altitude and gains so much speed when you tilt forward do they? In PR/BF2 it seems like anytime you tilt forward you start decending...sometimes very quickly like you are some sort of glider. I don't think it works like that IRL. IIRC POE choppers fixed that to an extent.

markonymous · Post by **markonymous** » 2008-01-21 06:54

with the new decent speed come pros and cons. I would say the pros outweigh the cons.
But i would like it to be easier to stabilize the choppers in game.

Alex6714 · Post by **Alex6714** » 2008-01-21 17:28

Just add that the BH insta-reverse when you pull back the joystick a tiny bit is quite annoying!

What happened though? The vbf2 BH isn´t like this. I don´t know how the coding works, but is it the increase in speed or what that causes the BHs unstableness?

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-21 18:02

a stable dive can performed without significant speed increase

The way the BF controls work does not accurately simulate real life. You can only gain speed by losing altitude in BF2, where in real life, you actually have throttle control.