Suggestion: Sniper camo improvement/bf2 engine workaround

SnipingCoward · Post by **SnipingCoward** » 2008-01-21 01:17

yeah probably an old rant but the bf2 engine is not really sniper friendly

(hills rendering lower on distance so ppl on top seem like they hover,
sniper kit does not display on distance, as well as grass letting him appear as normal infantry,
a sniper would still stick out at distance, not silhouette against the sky, but against the hill texture, cause there is nothing similar making his darker pixel look "strange there",
also don't forget the death cam)

dedicating a whole own kit to a sniper and limiting it to 2 on 64 ppl i would say thats a good start for a sniper beeing an elite class

back in my old 1942 days i'd play other mods like Galactic Conquest
after a patch the sniper there would have a deployable tent, with a commonly used texture on the map

finding a hill, deploying the tent at the incline, going prone inside - one could see through because the inside had a see through mesh texture

positive aspects of the tent: it renders at distances like bushes/normal ground does - giving a total work-around for the bf2 engine not rendering kits, and maps not having millions of bushes everywhere

in addition - i have to admit that giving out such an almost perfect camo - i have to make another suggestion:

because there are usually sniper teams of 2 - i would pleed for a support class/kit for the sniper - a Spotter
the spotter could have tripod-spotting binocs that tell distances and would actually carry the tent, not the sniper him self

and another suggestion for the suggestions list: maybe you could mark the kit suggestions with "Kit - " infront, like you did for weapons - because only thing similar i could find would be "Recon kit" with no link

my 2 cents
thx for your attention

edit: maybe i or someone else could come up with a screen shot from GC mod (haven't found one so far)

edit2: pics posted here: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... post618376

Enderjmu · Post by **Enderjmu** » 2008-01-21 01:41

Spotter Kit: HECK YEAH!

Req: one sniper in your squad.

Includes:
1 SOFLAM (or whatever it was... the ranging-laser-binoculars)
1 ammo bag (snipers run out of ammo when lots of people are around. even if it was only headshots...)
1 SMG (MP5 or something... P90? I dunno...)
*COUGH*1 manually detonated claymore
1 smoke
1 knife
no sidearm. no shovel, either.

no signal smoke, methinks...

think that'd be balanced enough?

think that's realistic enough? I don't... considering that I haven't the slightest clue what actual military realism is...

A tent would be good... except a giant pole sticking up out of the ground wouldn't be... and if you shorten the pole (and therefore the size of the tent) then you can only crouch/prone, which would be bad if someone tried to shoot you from behind...

maybe just give 'em camo suits (ghile or something like that, whatever they're called) even if they wouldn't show up at long distances.

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2008-01-21 01:50

spotter kit has been suggested at least 19071571 times and has been discussed to death.

As for the "tent" idea, sounds pretty good. Might be a little too much work though. (seeing as it wouldn't really change gameplay that much and it would only affect 4 or less players on a 64 player server)

SnipingCoward · Post by **SnipingCoward** » 2008-01-21 02:03

[quote=""Enderjmu"]... except a giant pole sticking up out of the ground wouldn't be... and if you shorten the pole (and therefore the size of the tent) then you can only crouch/prone, which would be bad if someone tried to shoot you from behind...[/quote]
sry, i didn't make my self clear on that one:
yes a prone only tent - very flat, walk through, merely large enuff for both
actually beeing like 3 planes/triangles - man i gotta find a screen shot/movie showing it

[quote="mammikoura""]spotter kit has been suggested at least 19071571 times and has been discussed to death.
[/quote]
sry, thats why i made it short

too much work though.

i don`t know about that - maybe copy-paste from the GC guys?

it would only affect 4 or less players on a 64 player server)

tell the guys taking the headshots not knowing where it came from (how sniper is supposed to work)

Post by **Rudd** » 2008-01-21 02:10

mammikoura wrote:spotter kit has been suggested at least 19071571 times and has been discussed to death.

it would only affect 4 or less players on a 64 player server)

True, and i am a lifelong enemy of the "zomg I rock with sniper ciz snipers are teh best" attitude.

Then again, snipers are important- and the kit needs some love.

The tent sounds good, but it wont follow the incline?

Enderjmu · Post by **Enderjmu** » 2008-01-21 02:19

bah! I can't shoot worth beans. I move too much. I like to fidget

I'm more of a spotter-type...

inclines would be a problem...

Today, I saw an AA hanging about level... on a 45 degree incline... I don't think you should be able to build on those...

But, how to deploy the tent? just click and it's there?
then I want deployable, manual artillery, and deployable machine guns...

I also saw someone say that Automatic rifleman was the most accurate kit... confirm/deny?

so a camouflaged sleeping bag, pretty much? with little poles in it...

how about trip flares also set off a marker on the map? or some guy says "flare tripped" just to alert the rest of the squad (if the sniper is dead and respawns, say...)

SnipingCoward · Post by **SnipingCoward** » 2008-01-21 02:20

Dr2B Rudd wrote:The tent sounds good, but it wont follow the incline?

it did in gc, since it was dropped like an ammo bag - it could fall through the ground as well xD

one could pick it back up like the grabling hook
it would get destroyed if noone was close to it for a certain period - on the other hand it would last for ages, when one was close (meaning inside)

a side note: it was not "useable" like a stationary gun - one would not mount it - it had mere visual cover purposes
the net-like mesh texture made it hard to aim though

because it is an object consisting of very little plolygones, like the ground - it blends very well with the ground - looks more like a tiny sand hill (or may be a bump on the road

)

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-01-21 02:20

I had always wondered if they could make the sniper MODEL, as in the players avatar, not render if in grass and prone/crouching.

SnipingCoward · Post by **SnipingCoward** » 2008-01-21 02:44

Expendable Grunt wrote:I had always wondered if they could make the sniper MODEL, as in the players avatar, not render if in grass and prone/crouching.

are you talking about instead of rendering the avatar - only render the bits that would actually be visible?

i think i saw this implemented in "Joint Operations"

i would look at the hill and see only the outline of an enemy - like where the leave was would be see through

or i would see a guy at distance running on the hill (skyline) without lower legs (would be covered by grass which was not rendered, therefore was transparent)

i think such thing would be hardcoded into the gameing engine

found a vid that shows what (i think) we mean: watch at 1:34 - 1:39
YouTube video link
look at, how he seemd to pop out from behind the ridge, when he was shot - but he was actually infront - his lower half was transparent because of the not rendered grass effect described above
- of cause a dead body does not need camo - so its off for corpses i guess

unrealalex · Post by **unrealalex** » 2008-01-21 02:47

Deployable tent seems like a farfetched idea =/ doubt it would be put into place.

I dont think there's any way to compensate for the visibly of snipers. my advice is to hide after every shot for about 5-10 seconds, and relocate whenever you feel safe. Also don't sit on the very peak of hills, either sit on the rear of the mountain so you can quickly go lower, or sit on the front of the mountain behind a tree or something.

DeePsix · Post by **DeePsix** » 2008-01-21 03:09

Even a deployable tent wouldn't be a good idea. If you deploy one, you could see the object from far away and know that a sniper is in it.

Razick · Post by **Razick** » 2008-01-21 07:48

how about a simple deployable bush? Could work like the officer kit but instead you just deploy shrubbs or small patches of vegetation. I dont know if you can deploy statics, anyone care to clarify?

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2008-01-21 08:03

deployable static/terrain ?

almost like asking for a cloak of invisibility really isn't it?

Unfortunately anything deployable on a map is due to the same restrictions as any other object and thus it would only draw so far. Draw it out further and everything else would disappear apart from that mini tent which would be instantly recognisable to everyone and would be a larger object than the sniper himself!

Learn to use objects that you know draw to long distances already, certain bushes for example!

beavis.uk^ · Post by **beavis.uk^** » 2008-01-21 08:09

Razick wrote:how about a simple deployable bush? Could work like the officer kit but instead you just deploy shrubbs or small patches of vegetation. I dont know if you can deploy statics, anyone care to clarify?

imo none of this would benefit, and the tent ideas with it.. people know the maps and know where snipers normally go (or at least i do) its just so predictable, and to see a bush in a place where there normally isnt is just ... obvious...

only solution imo is the ghille suit working from all distances, and new engine (haha) is the only fix for hill floating...

oh and also, the british sniper doesn't even have a ghille suit.

has anyone tested if you start with engineer kit and pickup a sniper kit, if you have a ghille suit (as china or mec or us) ? i noticed that if you don't start with rifleman it doesn't give you a ghille suit...

and a spotter kit isnt needed but will be helpful, otherwise people just use spec ops or auto rifleman... depending on what u want, ammo or soflams (spotter almost always chooses soflams) unless you like a smaller distance or smaller map so only binocs needed... but tbh soflams aren't even needed, the fog distance is enough just for binocs to be capable of seeing all...

at the moment snipers are at many disadvantages, marksman is far more benefitial at the moment

edit:

another thing which needs much attention which is disgraceful for a reality mod to have (sorry if i sound like im bitching, i just feel its a definate must do)
* to remove the kill-cam.. when i snipe, i feel i NEED to not "kill" them, if i kill them, their camera shows exactly where i am which is just lol, and they come back for revenge...

you either have to wound them til they bleed to death or hope you hit their chest

not only is it so obvious where you are from the sound but you have to also put this into play, this isnt cod4, remove the kill cam please.

SnipingCoward · Post by **SnipingCoward** » 2008-01-21 11:05

[R-PUB]MrD wrote:almost like asking for a cloak of invisibility really isn't it?

yes, that's exactly what i am asking - you can't even spot a sniper in a good camo suit from 3 meters - why be able to spot him like normal infantry in PR?

Draw it out further and everything else would disappear apart from that mini tent

ground does still render at distance - even though hills render lower - but taking that into account putting the tent not at the top of a mountain but at 1/3 height would make the sniper invisible - which he should be at huge distances

the fact that ppl would quickly learn to recognize the ever same shape is a drawback i admit

Learn to use objects that you know draw to long distances already, certain bushes for example!

and then again it works for GC mod

i'll prolly install gc and make a fraps to show you - that it really works

Sadist_Cain · Post by **Sadist_Cain** » 2008-01-21 11:29

it's called a hide irl and snipers use them all the time as a base for ammunitions, medical supplies and observation gear.

Suggested before by Moi here

I gave up cos touched on sniper class suggestions = "ARGH YOUR TOO L33T!!!"

I dont even play as sniper lol SL all the way

Problem is irl snipers don't shoot from the hide, theatll be hidden bout 200m behind the shooting position (trip flares anyone

)

You'll use your hide as your lil camp/base, radio tent and such, and take you shot from another location.

Likelihood is you have a specific target to observe/shoot so you may be there for days returning to the hide by night to report contacts

SnipingCoward · Post by **SnipingCoward** » 2008-01-21 11:37

ok, but that's a totally different concept, what you are talking about

my suggestion was merely to find a work around to engine's limitations
(ok, stole it from the guys of GC mod)

and as some one said "give the sniper kit some love"

b/c i don't want to play it right now - b/c its just another scoped rifle man with single-shot bolt action

oh - also: the tent giving away the position of the sniper is because the player would not know how to properly use his equipment - which should be punished by death imho

btw thx 4 ya feedback, y'all

PS: i found myself kniving a sniper - to then appologize in chat "sry, i know death cam sucks" - i really thought about leaving him alone b/c he had a perfect spot there

LtSoucy · Post by **LtSoucy** » 2008-01-21 11:55

Ok not to ruin the whole party and hopes but both the spotter kit and the Sniper being seen from so far have been said over 3000 times. The draw distance is not a problem caused or that can be fixed by the PR Dev's. Its a EA engine problem and in other words its hardcoded. And as other's said please use the serch function at the top of you forums.

Sniper draw:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr-suggestions-feedback/32198-snipers-hide.html

101 bassdrive · Post by **101 bassdrive** » 2008-01-21 12:04

I dunno but since a gillie defacto makes you invincible beyond a certain range why even draw the model?
so the guy with a snipergun is not vicible for people beyond 75-100m.. the only way to know hes there is by sound allocation.. once theyve flanked and moved closer in, the model is thus drawn and he can be taken out.