New CAS system Question.

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2008-01-23 03:27

Hello every one

Did in real life pilot depend from ground force to acquire target ? I mean, the A10 cannot engage or drop bomb on a designated point whitout somone on the ground lase him target ?

The new system in 0.7 is awesome, giving oppoturnitie to great teamwork, but, when you have no commander and no officer lasing you target... you cannot do nothin except drop blindly bomb from 400 ( and i doubt they even explode ), Laser Guided missile is totaly useless too... so you only have gun and rocket not a big deal huh... So if you can allow pilot to mark target on he's map ( like commander can mark him target ) or giving him Laser/Radar function maybe ?

Attack helicopter dont have this probleme, since the gunner control the missile and can put he's own laser mark.

Anyway its just my humble opinion

what's you're?

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2008-01-23 03:43

Hotrod525 wrote:Hello every one

Did in real life pilot depend from ground force to acquire target ? I mean, the A10 cannot engage or drop bomb on a designated point whitout somone on the ground lase him target ?

Some aircraft are equipped with LTD (laser-target designator) pods and others are not, requiring hand-off designation from ground forces or another aircraft. Some of the aircraft are often equipped with an LTD pod, but we cannot simulate a single aircraft operator manually acquiring and tracking the target.

As for the A-10 in real-life, the A-10C upgrades will allow it to self-designate, but the A-10A is only equipped with a laser seeker that functions much like the system in game; it acquires coded laser designations and presents them as target symbols on the HUD.

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2008-01-23 03:58

May be add a new missile like the new Brimstome created for the Harrier wich will use the LTD pod on aircraft... allowing pilot to use both system, the old and the new one, also increasing payload... so it will need a longuer take off...

Anyway i'm just suggesting

BTW : How come modern combat aircraft dont have LTD ?

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2008-01-23 04:07

Hotrod525 wrote:May be add a new missile like the new Brimstome created for the Harrier wich will use the LTD pod on aircraft... allowing pilot to use both system, the old and the new one, also increasing payload... so it will need a longuer take off...

Anyway i'm just suggesting

BTW : How come modern combat aircraft dont have LTD ?

The Brimstone is millimeter-wave radar guided, and a true fire-and-forget missile. It and the upcoming Brimstone II (modular; able to use a laser seeker or the MMW radar seeker, depending on which is installed) are being evaluated for use on US aircraft as well.

They do, but because of the inventory of LTD pods compared to the inventory of planes, not all of them may be equipped with one at the same time. In some aircraft LTDs are built directly into the airframe.

Post by **Ninja2dan** » 2008-01-23 04:24

Hotrod525 wrote:BTW : How come modern combat aircraft dont have LTD ?

Some aircraft do come equipped with their own LTD, but aircraft such as the A-10 do not require them. The A-10's AT missiles are IR-guided (or E/O) and not laser, and the LGB's are rarely used due to common operational altitudes. LGB's require they be dropped from a high alt, otherwise they will not have enough time to steer into the target. A-10's and other ground-attack aircraft operate at such low alt that these weapons are just not feasible.

A-10C's I think are equipped with the LITENING, but I don't remember for sure. EB, is there any "hint" as to the Charlies being in a future PR release?

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2008-01-23 04:36

Ninja2dan wrote:EB, is there any "hint" as to the Charlies being in a future PR release?

None at the moment. I suppose that if we had permission to edit USI's model, a LITENING or Sniper pod could be added. The cockpit interior in the first-person view would also need to be edited, with the new MFDs and such.

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2008-01-23 04:52

Ninja2dan wrote:Some aircraft do come equipped with their own LTD, but aircraft such as the A-10 do not require them. The A-10's AT missiles are IR-guided (or E/O) and not laser, and the LGB's are rarely used due to common operational altitudes. LGB's require they be dropped from a high alt, otherwise they will not have enough time to steer into the target. A-10's and other ground-attack aircraft operate at such low alt that these weapons are just not feasible.

A-10C's I think are equipped with the LITENING, but I don't remember for sure. EB, is there any "hint" as to the Charlies being in a future PR release?

MAVERICK Air-To-Ground Missile is :

Electro-Optical guided (Cam Sighted) for versions A, B,H, J & K,
InfraRed guided for versions D, F & G and
Laser guided for version E.

All used on A10...

A10 also use laser guided bomb... even JDAM...

And an other suggestion, can we have JDAM on F16/Mig and go Massive Ordnance Air Blast as the "Jdam" we currently have

MarineSeaknight · Post by **MarineSeaknight** » 2008-01-23 05:27

I'd imagine having a MiG/F-16 carry the JDAM currently used as a Commander asset in game would be a bit spammy.

The JDAM implemented in game right now can pretty much wipe out whole villages. For a weapon with as much firepower as that, there needs to be a control on it; the 1-hour waiting time, which makes it more valued and encourages use of it sparingly.

If a JDAM like that were mounted on a player-controlled aircraft, it would not only totally wipe out any ground combat (if used decently), it would also have the possibility to be spammed so much that airmaps would be almost pointless with a good pilot playing.

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2008-01-23 10:18

Hotrod525 wrote:Attack helicopter don't have this problem, since the gunner control the missile and can put he's own laser mark.

Witch is totally useless right now. It takes the same time to fire the laser mark as firing an actual missile. So why would you fire a laser mark if you can shoot a missile the first time..

unrealalex · Post by **unrealalex** » 2008-01-23 11:57

Jonny wrote:I have seen pilots repeatedly hit the same area +/- 2m by manually dropping the bombs six times in a row. You just need to get more practice.

they must be really good or they must be exploiting something...i dont know how you can accurately bomb manually if you have to be 500+ feet in the air and 500ft away from the target...

Hotrod525 · Post by **Hotrod525** » 2008-01-23 14:14

Jonny wrote:He is damn good.

It might have been the last version, but I remember trying out laser designators with him in the A10, the same plane he used for those bombing runs. I was watching from the ground near the target area, not marking anything, so it must have been manually dropped.

Is not cause you was not marking target that mean no body was marking it. Commander can put SAT Marker on MAP, SPEC Ops can mark target... an Officer near by can too...

I doubt blind bomb even explode men... i saw so many time the A10 or the FrogFoot droping bomb on airport lower from 500 and closer from 500 and it just desapear in the ground whitout any explosion.

Back on topic, i dont want JDAM on F16 infact i dont care at all, just suggest, what a want is giving a pilot a type of missile auto-guided, like Maverick was in 0.6, plus the laser currently added in 0.7.

BTW : Attack Helo can unleash an hell in less then 15 seconds whit Laser Guided (not targeted) just need a good pilot and a good gunner"

markonymous · Post by **markonymous** » 2008-01-23 14:20

Jonny wrote:I have seen pilots repeatedly hit the same area +/- 2m by manually dropping the bombs six times in a row. You just need to get more practice.

was it me?

But Mora what you need to do is get up to 700+ meters where AAs cannot aquire lock then drop down to about 550 hover while your gunner marks the target and when the target it down move up again. rinse and repeat works every time they have no idea what hit them.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-23 15:10

The laser targeted mode for the attack helicopters allows you to pop-up attack, which means you need 1 pop to lase, 1 pop to fire, with the hope that you spend less time vulnerable. Also, doesn't this allow you to use SOFLAM designations as well?

For LGBs, most of the time they are dropped at 20K-30K feet of altitude, depending on the distance to the target. Giving pilots the ability to simply loiter over an area and blow the **** out of it in PR would just mean jets fly higher and interact less with infantry, so adding more realistic LGBs would probably not be very fun. As far as laser designation for the A-10C, Global Security reports that it will be fitted with both the AN/AAQ-28 LITENING Targeting Pod, as well as the Sniper XRP Advanced Targeting Pod, which features a 3rd generation FLIR. Why it needs two FLIRs I have no idea, but I think giving it laser designation capability is a great idea as long as the model change could be done.

*Note* I typed this whole thing and then realized Eddie already knew all that. Anyhow, better reading next time.

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2008-01-23 15:59

You can use the A10 pretty well even without infantry spotting targets. Use the cannon

Btw, does the Frogfoot's cannon do less damage than A10's, and if yes, how much less?

arjan · Post by **arjan** » 2008-01-23 17:05

Jonny wrote:I think it was Arjan, inside the square at MEC outpost on Kashan, you were in an A10 at the same time.

Yes that was me we where trying to kill the motorbike in the square..
but it was not with laser stuff, it was back in 0.613

damn i liked manualy bombing so much more, you gave me an 8 out of the 10 for precision

now in 0.7 you dont need any skills for it anymore, with all the LG stuff

I REALY would like to see that CAS planes could manualy drop atleast 1 bomb

so it would be abit more fun for the pilot

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2008-01-23 21:24

Yeah, one dumb bomb would be great

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-24 01:36

Let me get this straight: Give pilots a weapon that can only be targeted when CLOSE to the ground, where the chance of being killed by AA is HIGHEST? You're nuts gents.

I see what you're saying, but to be honest I think the fun of coordinating an LGB hit is pretty fun in and of itself. Although I will admit it's not anywhere near as fun or challenging as demonstrating pinpoint accuracy with a dumb weapon.