AH-6 Little Bird (Attack) Armed Passenger

[Vapor.Trail]

I noticed that the single extra seat in the AH-6 is pretty useless other than transporting one individual across the virtual battlefield, which is somewhat inappropriate since the AH-6's role is to remain in the air and provide fire support to ground forces. Why not instead put it to better use by, I dunno, ATTACHING a MINIGUN to the passenger side? I noticed the idea implemented in AIX and found it to be rather practical and useful for the AH-6 gunship role. If not a minigun, then either at least let the passenger shoot his rifle from his seat or attach a less powerful (as in lower RPM) MG, such as a M249 or M240. This upgrade would bolster the firepower of the AH-6, allow the co-pilot to do something more useful and make the AH-6 a more valuable asset, particularly in Little Bird exclusive maps such as Qwai River.

[101 bassdrive]

AH6 Armament OH-6A Cayuse / AH-6J Little Bird - Military Aircraft

# 2 - M134 7.62-mm 6x barrel, Gatling type twin MG pods
# 2 - M260 2.75-in Hydra 70 rocket pods (7 or 12 each)
# 2 - .50 cal MG pods
# 2 - M75 40-mm grenade launchers
# 2 - MK19 40-mm grenade launcher
# 2 - TOW missile pods (2 each)
# 2 - Hellfire ATGM
# 2 - Stinger AAM

Most Probable Armament
# MD-500MD/Scout Defender: Fitted with guns, rockets, grenade launchers, or a combination on 2x fuselage hardpoints.
# MD-500MD/TOW Defender: Twin TOW missile pods on 2x fuselage hardpoints; mounts missile sight in lower-left front windshield.

would be sweet but would be overkill

[Salah ad Din]

*sigh*

Ok, this is your very first post, so I'll assume that "MOUNTING A MINIGUN" in the passenger seat of the Littlebird was a joke.

On the other hand, being able to use his rifle (or grenades or smoke or binocs) would be nice.

[Razick]

Maybe if we give the gunner control of the guns cuz you know thats how its employed in real life. Co-pilots in a cayuse gunship act as navigator and gunner of the armament and the pilot has controls to the rockets or unguided projectiles as you have to move the whole chopper to aim. Right now the guns are rarely used because aiming chopper for them is a waste of time. The guns are what people should be fearing but right now they are just whack.

[101 bassdrive]

Maybe if we give the gunner control of the guns cuz you know thats how its employed in real life. Co-pilots in a cayuse gunship act as navigator and gunner of the armament and the pilot has controls to the rockets or unguided projectiles as you have to move the whole chopper to aim. Right now the guns are rarely used because aiming chopper for them is a waste of time. The guns are what people should be fearing but right now they are just whack.

just.. huh?? the mg is mounted and alignement is done by chopper movement. thats how it is.
the problem you cant aligne atm is because of the new decent speed which disables proper stabilization. without the ability to reduce thrust youre bound to overfly it at high pace, randoming it to luck if you hit or not.

the only way to aligne is to make the target the center of a circlemovement and carefully adjust tilt.
as soon as you want to realign, S/decent (= as in taking thrust back thus slowing down forward movement) doesnt work. you just drop.
its not practical nor realistic.
fast helo decent speed is just NOT realistic. what would suite the helos better would be a decrease and delay in acceleration, but not for the LB's. it would make hovering easier for large and heavy transporthelos though.
so, thats why the ah-6variants suddenly have been degraded to 1man transporters.

ontopic of co-pilot arnaments: it would be the other way around. the TOW would be fired from the shooter on a handrail.
US Army MD500/530 OH-6/AH-6 Defender Helicopter

furthermore the ah6 burst should have a deeper tone and overheat faster, since it now overheats first after 100.
it sounds like a mini version of the a10 gun, gonna go search the video

[101 bassdrive]

here it is, attacking, mind the sound
YouTube - Little Birds
it isnt working so well ingame as it should be

[SGT.JOKER]

Well the co-pilot should definatly be able to do somthing...the question is what?

[Cp]

I know, I know!

He should be able to laser designate targets for attack helis and jets by pressing 2 to bring up a FLIR and clicking the right mouse button to lase stuff!

Oooh wait, the copilot can already do that!

[101 bassdrive]

..why, when in RL he would be able to TOW engage a target?
seems I owned your sarcasm

[Cp]

eeeeeeh?

I shall quote the holy scrolls known to man as the "guide"

Scout Attack Helicopter Copilot



* Co-Pilot View (Default: 1) - This is the normal co-pilot view.
* FLIR View (Default: 2) - The copilot of the scout attack helicopter can laser designate targets in this view.
* Laser Mark Target (Default: RMB) - This marks a target that you have located with a laser enabling you to scout targets for larger aircraft to lock on and destroy.
* Optical Zoom (Default: C) - This is your scout attack helicopters optical zoom. You have 2 levels of zoom, 1x and 10x. Pressing the button will cycle through the zoom levels.

From the holy scroll "User Interface and Controls" Section 2,9 " Scout Attack Helicopter Copilot"

[101 bassdrive]

thehe its ok, cp20000, dont get no bad feelings now. the suggestion regards arming the co-pilot and if its realistic. so quoting the guide on laser designation doesnt prove any point. its about arming and engaging, which IRL is possible.

[Cp]

thehe its ok, cp20000, dont get no bad feelings now. the suggestion regards arming the co-pilot and if its realistic. so quoting the guide on laser designation doesnt prove any point. its about arming and engaging, which IRL is possible.

All I did was answering to this question

Well the co-pilot should definatly be able to do somthing...the question is what?

I have no bad or hard feelings towards anyone on this forum, why would a small arguement about the copilot of the AH-6 change that?

Im prepared to leave this flame war before it even starts if you are.

[101 bassdrive]

yeh I see, seems it was a misunderstanding.. I connected your statement with the threadtopic, which made it seem stupid and unnecessary and not in the sense of the co-pilot simply having something to do. happens when you dont quote.
even if we talk mildly now, Id still kill you if you were on the enemy team though

[Bob_Marley]

I haven't heard of a door gun on a loach since Vietnam, if there were a TOW armed bird in PR it would be realistic, but at the current time its not so needed due to the armament of the helos.

[eddie]

I haven't heard of a door gun on a loach since Vietnam, if there were a TOW armed bird in PR it would be realistic, but at the current time its not so needed due to the armament of the helos.

The Loachs were often armed with an M60, occassionally it would be a minigun.

[BloodBane611]

Thank you CP2000. Way too many people don't even know about that. It makes the little bird very useful in the hands of a good pilot/spotter team.

The little bird is a dual use transport/recon bird in PR, as there is no Kiowa (as there probably should be). Realistically almost no units use the MH/AH-6s, most troops are transported via blackhawk and supported by apaches and kiowas in the field. There may be a small number of OH-6s still used, but most of them have been phased out in favor of the OH-58.

If I were to make a suggestion that would add realism, I would say remove the little bird entirely and replace it with the OH-58 and blackhawks. Since this requires the creation of 2 entirely new models I think it would be totally ridiculous to ask for it, but that would be the most realistic move here. Definitely no need for more firepower on these babies, there is a reason the DEVs put in fewer gunship versions in 0.7.

[Vapor.Trail]

^Why when it works so well the way it is right now?

Its too weak to waste 2 people on it anyway razick.

Also the Minigun OWNS if you know how to use them.

Precisely--the AH-6's armor is weak and has relatively low tolerance to small-arms fire, so why not implement the passenger-side weapon to play a defensive role? It would additionally serve to widen the AH-6's attack range in terms of adding firepower to the side of the bird. Since the AH-6 doesn't have side panel doors for its personnel, the crew would still be relatively vulnerable to small-arms fire from infantry--another reason for there to be a passenger-side "defensive" weapon. The co-pilot would also be able assume his role as a spotter by simply pressing "F" or "switching weapons" to switch to the FLIR view. I think this change would bolster the AH-6's capabilities and further increase its value to the team. The LB in Allied Intent Xtended used a minigun (although PR could use a "less powerful weapon" ) and I didn't see it overpower the gunship, but rather make it more balanced.

[Razick]

^Why when it works so well the way it is right now?

Its too weak to waste 2 people on it anyway razick.

Also the Minigun OWNS if you know how to use them.

It is an unarmored light helicopter so it is weak in that respect but to defend my argument these birds arent supposed to be flown like attack gunships unlike the majority of the pilots on here. They are flown low, fast, and with as minimal exposure as possible. Miniguns on little birds are supposed to be the the precision CAS weapon it really is but in game it is secondary as they arent as useful because the rockets are aiming at the same thing. Ive seen these babys in action and trust me the buzzing miniguns will get your attention in a hurry. It wouldnt be too hard to implement the gunner position in game I belive. The gun view in the orginal Super Cobras in BF2 is a perfect example of how it would work.