Sniping and bullet damage. Reality?

[Dempsey]

First of, this is my first post, and i would like to say how much i enjoy this game, its probably the most realistic online game to date.

I have had the mod for at least a week now (although i used to play the very first versions when PR came out)

Sniping, sniping. I just dont feel it is there, when you have handled real sniping weapons you will know, as im sure quite a few of you guys on here have. Even after reading that you have to wait at least 2 seconds for your rifle to steady (although this isnt visable) It still isnt true, i can wait 10 seconds and fire upon the same spot and my rifle will not be accurate. Now... This can be seriosuly frustrating, you have just hiked 1 mile, to get to your position undetected, target in sight, Bipods down (if they would) Steady, steady, and there drops the target. But, this just doesnt happen, and eventually your firing shot after shot, just to kill this one guy (with good 'steady' intervals) but, oh no, now Im the one whos under fire.

Some, may think im 'nit picking' and turn around with "are you forgetting its just a game" thing, but to be quite frank, im not.

Sniping, is one of the most important roles on the battlefield, in reality it destroys moral, and can stop a whole brigade, the damage is endless, but with Project reality, it dosent seem to have had the same input as some of the other roles.

Secondly, i would like to suggest Ballistics, not only with sniping aswell.

Its quite obvious how unreal balistics can be, 2 or more shots is the common amount which is needed to drop a target, and these are with Large calibre rifles, 7.62x51 nato, and 7.62x54 soviet etc. When you see a target, and you have a clear shot to take him down, you should know one bullet will do the trick, but oh no, not here, a shot into the heart just alerts this guy to turn around and find my position! at point blank range!

Just as important is the damage other rifles give, heck, i remember one time i fired 4 bullets into this guys torso and he still kept on running, and this was with a .223 sa80, which is common knowledge they can penatrate body armour, although this guy visably wasnt wearing any!

In my oppinion, realistic bullet damage, in a realisticly aimed game is paramount, and with these flaws, i will probably stop, because it just becomes to frustrating when you know rectifying them could easily improve the reality of the game.

[Bob_Marley]

On body armour - ceramic plates can withstand impacts that would normally penetrate "soft" body armour. Most modern military issue body armour (such as British "Osprey" and American "interceptor") incorporates such plates, covering crucial areas (such as the heart).

Also, the M40 in the current build isn't as it should be, this has been stated and will be rectified in the coming patch. Aside from that, also bear in mind that one has to account for the infamous BF2 hitbox lag, which means which hits you thought registered didn't.

Remember, this is an incomplete version of PR and that the core engine is less than perfect for certain aspects of the game. Improvements are on the way, please be patient.

[Juba]

In the mean time just aim higher than you usually would and it works fine... atleast with the L115A1.

[MarineSeaknight]

Many things in PR are a WIP, work-in-progress. You've named one of them, sniping.

Hitbox lag from the BF2 Engine aside, the sniper rifles, like the M40A3, are bugged. I'm not sure of the details that involve/cause this bug, I just know that a fix is coming in a mini-patch (hotfix) sometime in the near future. You should check back soon to see about downloading the hotfix later.

[Dempsey]

Thanks for the quick replies. BVut i have you have also taken on board what i said about ballistics, nomater what you say about ceramic plates, it still isnt real.

[Sadist_Cain]

Suppression effects more than just a bit of vision blurriness need/are being addressed.

Regardless of whether it penetrates the armour... a chunk of lead going 2000 odd feet per second must sting a smidge

I heard 0.8 will bring changes to how bullets can go through objects... perhaps that'll also see the hit system modified to suit. Personally I like the idea of surviving just one hit... if you're lucky

[BloodBane611]

Precision rifles do not use super rounds, they rely on shot placement to kill targets. Aim for the head bud. But wait until snipers are un-bugged.

[MACDRE]

Please read this

I think that 1 hit to a unarmored limb from a sniper rifle should kill a man, or put him close to it. If you got shot, say, in the shoulder or arm. You will not be able to do much with a shattered wrist or shoulder blade. And if the bullet happened to not hit any bones on its way through, you'd still be rendered pretty inoperative after it hit muscles and such. Same with a knee, foot, calf, neck, and of course the head.

A snipers bullet, almost where ever it can hit exposed skin, will incapacitate the victim. It will make them unable, or severely handicapped on a battlefield.

Also, if it hits the armored torso of a soldier, it should perhaps have a 90% chance to force them to go prone for 3 seconds to simulate getting knocked down. Maybe a 20% chance you "drop" your weapon, and are forced to switch to your knife for 3 seconds. During this they get an extreme of the effect that happens when bullets hit around you (the blurry effect), and your heart beating like the adernaline is pumping. But the shot doesn't do any damage to the victim.

:d uh:

I know, hardcoded, not neccasary, time could be spent elsewhere, and messes up balance, but in real life, as Dempsey said, snipers are the most devastating infantry force. I think this would make them more realistic. The sniper kit has gotten a bad rap by the idiots that get in a one man locked squad, or run off in the opposite way of their team so they can watch an unimportant area just to get kills.

However, if you get an accurate sniper overlooking the flag your attacking or defending, you will have much more intel on where the troops are, plus a guy that has a high-powered scoped rifle to kill the enemy with effeciency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1saxwji3VHg[/youtube]

What do you guys think?

[arjan]

damn he was lucky..

i hope the patch will come soon, becouse i like to be in a 2 man sniper team

[markonymous]

Please read this

I think that 1 hit to a unarmored limb from a sniper rifle should kill a man, or put him close to it. If you got shot, say, in the shoulder or arm. You will not be able to do much with a shattered wrist or shoulder blade. And if the bullet happened to not hit any bones on its way through, you'd still be rendered pretty inoperative after it hit muscles and such. Same with a knee, foot, calf, neck, and of course the head.

A snipers bullet, almost where ever it can hit exposed skin, will incapacitate the victim. It will make them unable, or severely handicapped on a battlefield.

Also, if it hits the armored torso of a soldier, it should perhaps have a 90% chance to force them to go prone for 3 seconds to simulate getting knocked down. Maybe a 20% chance you "drop" your weapon, and are forced to switch to your knife for 3 seconds. During this they get an extreme of the effect that happens when bullets hit around you (the blurry effect), and your heart beating like the adernaline is pumping. But the shot doesn't do any damage to the victim.

:d uh:

I know, hardcoded, not neccasary, time could be spent elsewhere, and messes up balance, but in real life, as Dempsey said, snipers are the most devastating infantry force. I think this would make them more realistic. The sniper kit has gotten a bad rap by the idiots that get in a one man locked squad, or run off in the opposite way of their team so they can watch an unimportant area just to get kills.

However, if you get an accurate sniper overlooking the flag your attacking or defending, you will have much more intel on where the troops are, plus a guy that has a high-powered scoped rifle to kill the enemy with effeciency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1saxwji3VHg[/youtube]

What do you guys think?

actually this isnt impossible... this is very possible with the engine the only thing is that PR needs animators. They can for example animate you having to stabilize you weapon before shooting. you dropping you weapon and crashing to the ground when hit by a bullet and so on. We could do many great things with animators.

[arjan]

what marko said

[icehollow]

Please read this

I think that 1 hit to a unarmored limb from a sniper rifle should kill a man, or put him close to it. If you got shot, say, in the shoulder or arm. You will not be able to do much with a shattered wrist or shoulder blade. And if the bullet happened to not hit any bones on its way through, you'd still be rendered pretty inoperative after it hit muscles and such. Same with a knee, foot, calf, neck, and of course the head.

A snipers bullet, almost where ever it can hit exposed skin, will incapacitate the victim. It will make them unable, or severely handicapped on a battlefield.

Also, if it hits the armored torso of a soldier, it should perhaps have a 90% chance to force them to go prone for 3 seconds to simulate getting knocked down. Maybe a 20% chance you "drop" your weapon, and are forced to switch to your knife for 3 seconds. During this they get an extreme of the effect that happens when bullets hit around you (the blurry effect), and your heart beating like the adernaline is pumping. But the shot doesn't do any damage to the victim.

:d uh:

I know, hardcoded, not neccasary, time could be spent elsewhere, and messes up balance, but in real life, as Dempsey said, snipers are the most devastating infantry force. I think this would make them more realistic. The sniper kit has gotten a bad rap by the idiots that get in a one man locked squad, or run off in the opposite way of their team so they can watch an unimportant area just to get kills.

However, if you get an accurate sniper overlooking the flag your attacking or defending, you will have much more intel on where the troops are, plus a guy that has a high-powered scoped rifle to kill the enemy with effeciency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1saxwji3VHg[/youtube]

What do you guys think?

-.-. You don't get knocked down by the force of the bullet. It's a neurology thing, people react as they think they should, for most thats jerking back off balance or falling over.

[zangoo]

ok it does not matter if the bullet pushes you over or you fall over cus of pain, you still fall over if you get hit.

[Jaymz]

Thanks for the quick replies. BVut i have you have also taken on board what i said about ballistics, nomater what you say about ceramic plates, it still isnt real.

Wrong, everything he said stands strong against your argument. It's well known that interceptor body armor can withstand several 7.62x51 rounds. On top of that, it's also well known just how ineffective 5.56 rouds are known to be. One shot, one kill (even in reality) is a rare occurance.

That said, the deviatio tweaks in the coming patch will greatly improve DM/Sniper rifles effectivness.

[Outlawz7]

Wrong, everything he said stands strong against your argument. It's well known that interceptor body armor can withstand several 7.62x51 rounds. On top of that, it's also well known just how ineffective 5.56 rouds are known to be. One shot, one kill (even in reality) is a rare occurance.

That's why they use the M82 eh

If it was up to me, I'd remove snipers from PR long ago.

[Valtasar]

Also, if it hits the armored torso of a soldier, it should perhaps have a 90% chance to force them to go prone for 3 seconds to simulate getting knocked down. Maybe a 20% chance you "drop" your weapon, and are forced to switch to your knife for 3 seconds. During this they get an extreme of the effect that happens when bullets hit around you (the blurry effect), and your heart beating like the adernaline is pumping. But the shot doesn't do any damage to the victim.
QUOTE]
Totaly agree! That would be real great.

One shot, one kill (even in reality) is a rare occurance.

That's true but wounded soldier not much of a fighter.
I mean he can defend to the his position but it would be extreamly diffecult for him continue the atack.

[Dempsey]

Wrong, everything he said stands strong against your argument. It's well known that interceptor body armor can withstand several 7.62x51 rounds. On top of that, it's also well known just how ineffective 5.56 rouds are known to be. One shot, one kill (even in reality) is a rare occurance.

That said, the deviatio tweaks in the coming patch will greatly improve DM/Sniper rifles effectivness.

Wrong... 4 shots into someones torso who is not wearing any body armour, never mind plates. WILL KIL SOMEBODY

When i mentioned about shooting someone through the heart, it was a PLA soldier, and it was from behind, now im not certain but chinese soldiers dont have ceramic armour, never mind on their back.

[Dempsey]

That's why they use the M82 eh

If it was up to me, I'd remove snipers from PR long ago.

Yeah, and you clearly have knowledge on reality.

[unrealalex]

That's why they use the M82 eh

If it was up to me, I'd remove snipers from PR long ago.

What's wrong with snipers? They're very useful if used properly

[gazzthompson]

Wrong... 4 shots into someones torso who is not wearing any body armour, never mind plates. WILL KIL SOMEBODY

wrong. ive heard many times the military advisor's of this mod(who have been to Iraq/Afghanistan) say that the 5.56 takes a fair few shots to kill some 1 let alone keep them down.