Loadout fixes to make some classes intresting.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2008-01-26 15:37

Jonny wrote:totally possible, just requires different models.

mouse hole =/= fox hole

No, a mousehole is a breach in a wall that allows soldiers to crawl or crouch through. A foxhole is a dug-in position for cover.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-26 15:44

brummy.uk wrote:I'm telling you, all those engagements are in CQB, right?

1. Why don't they use the shotgun as primary weapon but carry it on the back instead? Because it's for breaking doors

2. Why do they have the rifle as primary weapon? Because it's a fine CQB weapon.

3. They are only available in such situations or jungle warfare or some special forces!

1.&2.
Because they only use it inside the house they will secure.
Between houses on open field and on the normal patrol they need to cover theyr sector till movement, like any other squadmate! For this they need their primary weapon. If they get to a house they need to secure, the guy gets order to go on point with the shotgun...

[ingame there are much location for its use, on each map are close combat areas with small streets, houses (vanilla house + nice new modded destructable houses by the devs), construction sites and so on...]

3
youre wrong

for that reasomn i was searching pics for evidence to underline my statement.

i brought it and you still say i lie...

__________________________________________________________________
and foxhole =/= mousehole ->hole in wall for shooting)

COPY that

[R-DEV]Eddie Baker wrote:No, a mousehole is a breach in a wall that allows soldiers to crawl or crouch through. A foxhole is a dug-in position for cover.

In some of your new destructable buildings you can make dinosaur mouseholes to run through

Sadist_Cain · Post by **Sadist_Cain** » 2008-01-26 16:00

Salvaging the origional idea from this thread and relaxing this "YOURE WRONG, NO YOURE WRONG!" thing...

Use of combat shotguns...
Shotguns
The combat shotgun in the BCT
The tactical shotgun in urban operations | Infantry Magazine | Find Articles at BNET.com

The last one there mentions the shotgun being used with the M249 saw, how's that for uber leet

ok so... shotguns for the ammo rifleman, I like the idea as long as it's a pump action buckshot shotgun, something that'll only be usefull in CQB.
The reason for this is the ammo rifleman has a much more supporting role of the squad, so long range engagements aren't his thing.
We don't have any sort of kit prepared for room clearing except for the Flashbangs included in the SL and spec ops kit (which I'll get to soon...)
There is without a doubt realism in a certain squad member being able to have a combat shotgun, I believe the ammo Rifleman is the best fit...

Spec ops... it's been said countless times, If anyone is going to have a grappling hook why wouldn't it be the covert unit? I don't quite see the need for the flashbangs though there is a spec ops link with that so they should stay...
it is very annoying to be an SL trying to send your "spec ops" on a secret mission to destroy a few TOW launchers or summin and he can't do jack without a blundering engineer needing to come along to throw him a rope up

Arguing aside if folk can and not mention any "l33t" **** something does certainly need doing to allow a special operations kit to actually allow special operations and there's certainly a distinct lack of an Ideal pointman when FISHing in urban areas

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-01-26 16:04

How often are M4s used instead of M16s in Iraq? It would be interesting to swap out some assault rifles for iron-sight carbines on certain maps, especially for the ammo rifleman or engineer (not Medic, that would attract too many 1337 players).

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2008-01-26 17:06

If I recall correctly, the distinction is mostly between USMC and Army, with the USMC using the M16 and the Army the M4.

Maxfragg · Post by **Maxfragg** » 2008-01-26 17:21

shotguns could indeed be sencefull, but only if more city maps would use destroyable doors so that you could really use them for breaching, maybe it could only be an adition for urban maps, to reflect that they don't get issued always

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2008-01-26 17:47

Besides the argument, you didn't respond to my earlier question: where do you get your knowledge about this kind of stuff Pain? Are you serving or have your recently served?

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-26 18:07

I served 8y and i got to do with us and german troops, but i have not much knowledge about uk troops except their weapon systems and casual knowledge.

But not how they operate or how their specific life/rules there in combat.

But im still very intrested in such things and thats the way i play too.

I dont play much games, on my pc are just a few. I got opf, arma, pr and poker installed. I played bf2 for 2-3 weeks then it becomes boring to me.

Startet pr with .5.
From .5 to .61 i tried pr and stopped after a bit for playing arma again, but as i tried .7 i stopped playing arma (+ join forum to make some suggests).

And im waiting for Opf2 and Arma2 this year and maybe PR2 for BF3

Youre on the right way guys!

Thats all you need to know, i wont will say any more private.

p.s. thats not my ingame nick

--->back to topic

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2008-01-26 18:38

I'm not sure about the grappling hook, might cause some problems on maps with players getting to where they're not supposed to be (Like glitching into a building and shooting out of it).

Though I do think the shotgun being added to the ammo rifleman's kit has some merit. In terms of balance, having a shotgun in this kit isn't going to make it godlike, as the kit would still lack the ranged precision of the other scoped classes. And as we know, most engagements in PR are at medium to long range unless you're storming a building or moving through the jungle/forest.

Realism wise, sure it may not be standard issue, but the same could be argued for having the Medic and Engineer kits limited (Which mind you, I have no qualms about). The idea of a dedicated breacher kit just sounds bad... as even now we're pushing it with the amount of kits going around. If "breaching" does become something apart of PR, the ammo rifleman should serve as one, with possibly a small explosive charge (A redundant version of the C4 could be used, just reskinned and maybe resized). Overall, it's not a bad idea.

Deuce6 · Post by **Deuce6** » 2008-01-27 14:02

I'm forced to agree with terra on the shotgun aspect of the game. Although I haven't played in awhile! It would be nice to have some CQB firepower.

And what's his name is mostly correct. Every squad in my battalion was issued a shotgun or two. Depending on what the squad did. Weapons squad needless to say didn't get one.

240 bravo's did enough *** kickery.

But the rest of the squads were issued one shotgun and a vareity of rounds. Mostly slug and buckshot. Never really used for much other than door/lock breaches, hell we really didn't even use them for CQB too much. The door breach is usually the number 4 man in a stack, so that means he's off pulling rear security and he's the last man in while the other 3 do the room clearing.

So all you saying that no infantry battalions are issued shotguns, well, your dead wrong. Just because you don't see them alot with shotguns doesn't mean they're not there. I kept ours in my hydration pouch. Removed the buttstock and put on a pistol grip. Oh yea. Serious close quarters right there.

I'd like to see a shotgun as a sidearm here. Just limit the ammo. I carried 330 rounds of 5.56, 26 40mm HEDP grenades for my M203, and close to 30 rounds of shotgun ammo. It's do-able.

Deuce6 · Post by **Deuce6** » 2008-01-27 15:03

I'd never want to be a damned Marine!

Army Infantry all the way. 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry Regiment. 1st Brigade, 25th Infantry Division.

fludblud · Post by **fludblud** » 2008-01-27 15:17

carrying a rifle and a shotgun at the same time everytime? what have you been sniffing?

the non scoped rifleman is a standard infantryman of the selected army. last time i checked, shotguns were not the standard sidearm of every grunt anywhere. as the guy above me explained, there would only be a maximum of 2 shotguns per squad and even then it wasnt very useful apart from breaching.

keep the shotgun with the engineer, hes often the one blowing things up and would logically be around buildings and close quarters. sure riflemen will be at a disadvantage to a scoped rifleman but guess what? war isnt fair, a guy who has the cash to buy an ELCAN is obviously going to have an advantage over a guy who doesnt.

billdan · Post by **billdan** » 2008-01-27 15:32

CLAYMORES (2, max 3) FOR NONSCOPED RIFLEMEN!!!!

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-28 09:16

fludblud wrote:carrying a rifle and a shotgun at the same time everytime? what have you been sniffing?

He said he was on duty, and there he was carry one. You say he lie...
There are some reports a side before and pics 2 sides before and you still say thats not true...

I wont make any trouble, but youre an id iot...

fludblud wrote: the non scoped rifleman is a standard infantryman of the selected army. last time i checked, shotguns were not the standard sidearm of every grunt anywhere.

Thats not a training or anything else you learned at home. Thats war! They are not at home there. There are other rules....

fludblud wrote:
as the guy above me explained, there would only be a maximum of 2 shotguns per squad and even then it wasnt very useful apart from breaching.

Át the moment there are 0 Shotguns for each map except of 2 maps...

fludblud wrote: keep the shotgun with the engineer, hes often the one blowing things up and would logically be around buildings and close quarters.

But at thge moment it wouldn´t be realistic to make a shotgun only class...

Who carry 2 Shotguns for diffrent ammo types, or who can unload and reload his shotgun for a new ammo type in less then a second?

What should he do if he move with his squad in open area, he cant secure his sector till moving coz hes out of range.

He would be totally useless... And unrealistic!

Jonny wrote:The non-scoped rifleman is a supporting role, carrying ammo for the standard infantryman (the one with the scope).

...

And no, it is not carried by EVERY grunt, hence only one class has it.

But if he stay a supporter hes not an assoult class called rifleman, then he should be ammo bit ch and the ammo from automatic rifleman should go to make it intresting without close combat specilisation...

Squadmovement in hostile area, that wouldnt work with a shotgun as main weapon

turnpipe · Post by **turnpipe** » 2008-01-28 10:01

You can make two weapons out of one for example you can have a graping hook one lmouse button and a smoke canister one rmouse button.

airdrop · Post by **airdrop** » 2008-01-28 15:03

to be honest i have not went threw every page in this thread but if this was brought up iam sorry

but i dont think the sidearm needs to be taken out if any thing i think it needs a supressor....
i dont think that would be unreal most spec ops have fully surpressed guns.
and with the audio being as good as it is as far as shot sounds and where they came from being able to sneak up on a squad and take the guy in the back out with out being heard would be pretty "fun"
just my thoughts though.

pardon my spelling btw its late >.<