When someone is shot, force them to go prone

carld2002 · Post by **carld2002** » 2008-01-27 16:01

Heskey wrote:No, I really don't - People don't have an issue pressing prone when they come under fire, so why the hell implement something like this?! = /

idiocy?

.Intense · Post by **.Intense** » 2008-01-27 16:58

halvor2 wrote:cause i would say it would be realistic to go auto prone when your shoot and maybe 1 second delay before standing up again!

Translation:

I want to fire wildly instead of taking an aimed shot forcing the person I am firing at to stop moving so I can now use my general inability to aim to take them out.

Sorry -- I don't foresee this happening.

LeoBloom. · Post by **LeoBloom.** » 2008-01-27 17:08

You know what's interesting? It's actually easier, in PR, to kill someone who is prone, then someone who is running (at least in the distance). Prone doesn't actually give more cover.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-27 17:09

I can see where this is coming from, but as realistic as it may be, it would kill a lot of gameplay. When storming a room all the attackers would end up prone in the doorway, out in the open you'd take a chest hit and end up unable to move for 2 seconds. Realistically some shots will knock you down, but if you get winged or even take a hit to the armor, you're not just going to fall over. If anything, your body will kick in more energy to get you to safety. The only time this would really make sense is for a leg hit, but since there is no "leg" mesh (and all the models would have to be redone in order for there to be one) I don't particularly think this is doable either.

So I'd say no, not good for gameplay, plus not entirely realistic, and a decent amount of work to implement.

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-01-27 17:22

Anyone who knows anything about infantry combat in this game will probably go prone for a second anyway before they search for, and run to, better cover. The smallest variations in the terrain can be used as cover if you go prone and run to the right places at the right time, in the right way. It's all about learning how and when to execute it.

Anatzenko · Post by **Anatzenko** » 2008-01-27 19:35

Ye good olden time OPF(Operation Flash Point) had it so you cound't stand up when your legs were busted. OPF=HC

Sadist_Cain · Post by **Sadist_Cain** » 2008-01-27 19:44

LeoBloom. wrote:You know what's interesting? It's actually easier, in PR, to kill someone who is prone, then someone who is running (at least in the distance). Prone doesn't actually give more cover.

It's only really because A. it stops them moving so fast so they're an easy target and B. you can get a clear hit on their head if theyre facing you.

It'd be good if it could be localised to leg hits or something... However you'll find folk being hit by bullets and still going through adrenaline... What'd make you fall over is the force of the impact + pain + shock + Concussion...

I don't know about you but if say I'm running across a road I can feel taking a few shots sometimes but I can keep pushing through... If I'm stood still and I get shot at I drop straight to the floor instantly from the shock etc. Noobish folks stay stood up (dazed, confused?) and consequently get shot down some more until they do Automatically fall over... As in dead

Tis much more of a human reflex thing that I wouldn't like to see being turned over to a machine

Zybon · Post by **Zybon** » 2008-01-27 21:09

I suggested awhile ago to simply have being shot remove some amount of stamina. This would have a similar effect without being too jarring.

turnpipe · Post by **turnpipe** » 2008-01-27 23:51

Just let the damn bullets knock you on your ***!

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2008-01-28 16:23

turnpipe wrote:Just let the damn bullets knock you on your ***!

thats the point, they dont.

Post by **Masaq** » 2008-01-28 16:52

Sadist_Cain wrote:It'd be good if it could be localised to leg hits or something... However you'll find folk being hit by bullets and still going through adrenaline... What'd make you fall over is the force of the impact + pain + shock + Concussion...

Tis much more of a human reflex thing that I wouldn't like to see being turned over to a machine

Wrong.

turnpipe wrote:Just let the damn bullets knock you on your ***!

Just as wrong.

Bullets do NOT have the force to "knock you on your ***!". Chaps, it's very basic physics. Never do Newton's laws at school?

In particular, the one about every action having an equal and opposite reaction?

If a bullet's imnpact had enough force to knock the average person over, then the act of firing the gun would have enough force to knock the average person firing the gun the bullet was fired from over too.

It's possible that firing a large calibre round into a small child might have enough force to knock them over, in the style of Hollywood action movies. I don't know, I've never tried and I'm not sick enough to go Google for it.

On a full grown human adult though the chief reasons people fall over when shot are due to physiological and psychological causes, NOT physical ones.

People fall over:

-Because they expect to (no, seriously- you guys just proved that

)
-Because the impact damages muscle tissue being used to hold them upright (calf and thigh wounds, for example)
-Because they have damage to nerve tissues (thus impairing their body's ability to balance)
-Because they go faint from blood loss (such as a round damaging a major blood vessel
-Because their lower brain functions are damaged (hitting the medula oblongata stops the core functions of life - breathing, heatbeat etc - operating)
-etc etc.

Anyone with a really morbid interest should read this:

Patrick, U.W. (1989) Handguns Wounding And Effectiveness. Washington: US Department of Justice

Available online (Google gets you this link for example: http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf )

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-01-28 18:54

I don't think always going prone is going to be the best idea here....but we definitely 100% need a bullet hit effect. This is a really big deal imo. I'd be happy with a loss in stamina or something until we can, if ever, get a nice animation in there. Stamina is a good one in my book. At least it would prevent them from running away the minute you hit someone.

I think the 5.56rnds should only take a certain percentage of stamina off while maybe the 7.62x51 rounds should take all of it off...7.62x39 could take like half or something. This would effectively model some kind of stopping power associated with the different weapons. Deviation linked to health would be pretty damn cool too but that seems like it might not be possible...who knows if any of this is I guess.

turnpipe · Post by **turnpipe** » 2008-01-28 20:47

I seen that episode of mythbusters when they tried bullets on a pig suspended teetering on the edge of a hook. The only thing that knocked the pig down was a shotty slug.

There is no need too screw with a guy just cause he makes a suggestion.

Post by **Spec** » 2008-01-28 21:54

Resuggestion! Prone + Unable to fire = Hardcoded!

Someone had to say it, sorry.

Back to topic, i'm not a soldier or scientist or anything, but i dont think you would go down as fast as the BF2-Prone is. If i shoot at someone i want to be able to hit him twice on close distances, without him being forced to go insta-prone. Thats what it is. The animation is just bad imo. I imagine in real life, even if the hit in the body armor will hurt a lot and may cause trouble in the body etc etc, it will never make you go prone like the BF2 animation, i guess - especialy on close quarters, you will go down a bit slower, and when you're for example in a room you'll not jump through the wall. Hitting someone two times should be possible i think.

Again, i only THINK. I've never seen it, doing it or watched videos about it (except that mythbusters stuff lol), since i hate seeing people being shot.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-29 00:47

I don't understand the realism behind removing someone's stamina after being shot. As long as you're not bleeding profusely, or have a very injured leg, you're not going to have trouble sprinting to cover or somesuch.