Weapon Deviation Indicator

[PRC_Heavy_Z]

The deviation system implemented is a very good start and in my opinion another step forward in terms of realism. However, the system can be rather annoying and bothersome mostly because it's hard to tell whether you have reached max accuracy in a timely manner. Sure one could simple count the time but it still leaves uncertainty.

Here is my suggestion

there are two ways to implement the deviation indicator:

1. Visual
2. Sound
3. Combination

Visual Idea 1
One could make a SLIGHT blurring effect on the edge of the screen when the sight is up and the weapon deviation is high (IE. after sprinting and running around). When one settles down, the blur effect will slowly dissipate at the rate of accuracy recovery and disappear completely when the weapon is at max accuracy. This Blur effect will not take place when the sight is not raised.

Visual Idea 2
There could be another HUD near the magazine counter that shows the weapon deviation, kind of like the temperature gauge. As accuracy increases, the gauge goes up and when accuracy decease the gauge goes down.

Sound idea 1
This would be similar to ArmA. Play various breathing and heartbeat sounds with different state of weapon deviation. quiet and slow breathing for minor movement/deviation, moderate deviation/breathing after jogging around, and for high deviation such as after sprinting moderately fast breathing with quiet but fast heart beat. When the sight is raised and there is no deviation, the sound should be controlled and steady breathing. No sound played when there is no deviation but sight is not raised.

Combination
a combination of the ideas above

What do y'all think? Discuss and share your ideas.

[Jaymz]

Sound idea 1
This would be similar to ArmA. Play various breathing and heartbeat sounds with different state of weapon deviation. quiet and slow breathing for minor movement/deviation, moderate deviation/breathing after jogging around, and for high deviation such as after sprinting moderately fast breathing with quiet but fast heart beat. When the sight is raised and there is no deviation, the sound should be controlled and steady breathing. No sound played when there is no deviation but sight is not raised.

I thought about this before release. The problem is that the only way it could be implemented is by attaching it to the "sight in" sound, meaning it would happen every time you sight in. But even then, when you move while sighted your deviation increases and there's no way to re-trigger the souund.

[Mustyzzle]

Yea ! Too bad, PR is limited cause of the BF2 code

So Dev's, when are you making your own code/game for a stand alone PR ?

Will love you long time if you do it

[Spec]

BF2 has crosshairs, showing how accurate the weapon is, right? Adding this crosshair in the corner of the screen, or a part of it, like some small line showing how accurate the weapon is, like the "visual idea 2" - at least i dont think that would be hard coded, just move the crosshair for this weapon away from the middle of the screen, place it to the bottom corner and when you run the line goes away from the corner, if you're standing, it returns. It would be a very very small addition but would show how accurate you are. Just my 2 cents.

[Pain]

No useless hud informations, this will make it unrealistic.

I mean in real life after walking you raise the gun and need aim 1-2 secs, you think before you shot that you hit most of the time, if you miss in rl you aimed on him and thought you will hit him.

There is no visual help or anything. You aim on your target you think you will hit and shoot. Today there are millions of bullets fired in a war but only thousands of deaths or wounded. I know many bullets are shoot to supress but i think there was more aimed shots then hits.

The deviation system needs to balance a bit for other stances or crouched moving, but i think its ok as it is in the current way without any usless markers in your hud etc...

Its like in real life, there is noone with a assault rifle just firing 1-2 aimed rounds on you. Bullets are cheaper then lives so use them. You got enough ammo, give enemy pos to your mates then form a line and put as many metal in his direction as you can.

Try this: aim on->coun 21-22->shoot // if moving->count again->shoot

If your opponent know that you there you shouldnt count, you should fire the first 2-3 shoots to supress him or maybe get a lucky first hit, after this first rounds your bullets hit correct...

[Spec]

The deviation indicator is supposed to simulate the weapons' sway which cant be shown since its hard coded. IRL you would see that, i'm sure...

[Ragni<RangersPL>]

Why do you need some funny indicators on the HUD? It takes less than 2 seconds (for assault rifles) to get max accuracy. Just take firing positon, take a deep breath and start shooting

[Pain]

Why do you need some funny indicators on the HUD? It takes less than 2 seconds (for assault rifles) to get max accuracy. Just take firing positon, take a deep breath and start shooting

Bingo

The deviation indicator is supposed to simulate the weapons' sway which cant be shown since its hard coded. IRL you would see that, i'm sure...

In real life the bullets came out of your gun which is free moveable in all directions, you need to bring up the gun into a line with the target, not only bring up a 2d point on it. So aiming in real life takes a bit longer


In bf2 the bullets dont come out your gun they come out in center of your sight always, so they have to use this 2 sec deviation. But a marker for it would make it much more unrealistic in my eyes...

Question:

If you get under fire in real life and you need to take him out to get you *** safe what would you do?

a) You aim on him for a few seconds to kill him with a headshot...

b) you raise your gun and start shootinmg in his direction and you begin aim on while shooting and correct the bullet impacts to his pos

[Rudd]

Its not a rediculous suggestion at all, especially for snipers? Visual idea 2 sounds best to me.

[$kelet0r]

The reticle "sway" animation when scoped and walking is in my mind the most suitable for visualising the effect

[Spec]

I didnt suggest it, i only suggested a way to do it that isnt hardcoded.

Anyway, you would, in real life, see if your aiming at the enemy or at the ground. Right now, in PR, it can happen that you aim at the enemy and the bullet will hit the ground.

[Pain]

In real life your gun is fixed in 2 points (each hand) and you need to bring the gun in one line with your eyes and your target... In game you just need put the middle of your screen on it...

In real life every step will make you unable to fire like asniper and you have to get your gun steady in front of your face, in a part of a second.

Deviation was one step in the right direction but a visual marker would be a step backwards in my eyes.

The only problem i see at the moment are the diffrent muzzle climb for same guns with scope and unscoped, thats dont works good with the deviation.

Unscoped guns should have same muzzle climb like scoped guns and they should have same deviation on same range like the scoped ones. So the deviation at unscoped guns would be more accurate and more realistic.

And there should be less deviation time when i move crouched or with raised gun...

[PRC_Heavy_Z]

It's a pity how utterly cold and stubbornly rejecting the BF2 engine is.

But anyways, the assault rifles don't really need the indicator that much because, yes people can count their one two threes but that still leaves uncertainty. It also is a bit unrealistic because the weapon deviation from moving about is to reflect getting steady, and you'd know in the real world how steady you are because of the swaying of the sights

The indicators are more important for heavier weapons such as H-AT, Snipers, Marksmen, and maybe SAW/LSW, which all have longer deviation times. This is especially true of H-AT, it take a long time to setup, you can't move and if you screw up, you'd blast yourself.

[RCMoonPie]

1st...I agree with a lot of the posts on this thread.
But....I dont think we need another indicator on screen. IMO it detracts from the purpose of PR.

I also disagree with the thought that it is harder to snap-in and fire 2-3 accurate rounds after having ran a distance or any other scenario that raises heart-rate or breathing. And whats this stuff with blurred sights?
In my experience...in most situations where my heart-rate has been elevated with a "tinge" of adrenaline.....I have been more focused.

I do however see the purpose of "deviation" for the snipe. A snipe should have to wait a few seconds before being able to fire after he brings the scope to eye.
I feel this would give a degree of realism in the fact that IRL a snipe takes care to finding a good firing position, then they take aim, breath, relax, they place finger to trigger, aim, breath, relax,....you get the picture.
Surgical shots dont just happen by looking into the scope and pulling a trigger.
Maybe to account for this, once the scope sight is acquired there should be a 5 or so second delay before the weapon could be fired?
Maybe?
I know, I know...IRL you are able to just pull the trigger at any-point....but at the same time you wont be able to hit a thing.

[PRC_Heavy_Z]

Well, the blurred sight is not supposed to simulate the player being winded or tired. It is supposed to be a very slight effect to let the player know the weapon is still being steadied. In Crysis they have a blur effect when the sight is activated, though the effect serves a different purpose in that game, I think if we apply the same visual effect to the deviation system, it'd be somewhat realistic and lets the player know with certainty when the weapon is steady.

[BloodBane611]

The deviation indicator is supposed to simulate the weapons' sway which cant be shown since its hard coded.

Not true. It can be animated, but no animator to do it. FH2 does have weapon sway with some of their sights.

Anyhow, the HAT does have a deviation indicator, the 4 lines that move in and out are pretty informative. As far as the LSWs go, I haven't found any real issues with aiming because of the volume of fire they produce. Personally I would like one on the rifles, but since it can't really be done, it's all about personal firing discipline. Know that if you rush your shots, you won't hit, and adjust accordingly.

[Death_dx]

I like the temperature gage idea, I think you should be able to tell when you can hit your target. Secondly my biggest problem with deviation atm is the difficulty in hitting a moving target, because now you either have to aim far ahead of them, enough to steady and then fire one round and repeat, or aim ahead and spray, which is usually more effective.

[Spec]

In real life your gun is fixed in 2 points (each hand) and you need to bring the gun in one line with your eyes and your target... In game you just need put the middle of your screen on it...

Exactly. In real life you KNOW when those two points in one line. In game, you have no idea if your ironsights are in one straight line or if there is a huge distance between the one end and the other, thats why some bar or whatever would be useful, telling the player how far these points are from eachother - as you'd be able to see in real life when the ironsights match.

In real life every step will make you unable to fire like asniper and you have to get your gun steady in front of your face, in a part of a second.

Yes, true. I didnt want to remove devaition. I only wanted the player to know WHEN the gun is ready to fire with.

Not true. It can be animated, but no animator to do it. FH2 does have weapon sway with some of their sights.

Ah, good, didnt know, that would be perfect of course.

Again, i dont need such a help to shoot, but when it helps, why not? - okay, because another HUD-element would be a step back somehow, yea, gotta agree. But it may help some people and for some weapons, and maybe it would be good until an animation could be made.

And again, i only wanted to show a way thats possible with the engine and doesnt need an animator.

[tanky]

right i started a thread on this as i couldnt find it before so it got locked so will comment here.

I think people that say "no visual indicator" are just being stubborn and are giving no real thought into what actually is realistic; not knowing when you have your gun ready to shoot, to me, is more unrealistic than seeing a tiny indicator bellow the scope.

I for one, believe a visual indicator that tells me when my soldier is ready to fire accurately is a damn good idea... I mean, come on! A real soldier KNOWS when he is ready to fire, so why should we have to guess? In the locked post I suggested the indicator used for the heavy AT, but maybe just bellow (out of the way of) the scope? it doesnt have to be anything massive, just something subtle.

I think this strive for realism has made the game a little more unrealistic tbh. this is my number 1 pet hate with my fav game...especially when there is also a 'luck draw' involved....the uncountable times i have been laying still for a couple of minutes, then shoot and somehow miss the guy only 20ft away, only for him to role over and shoot me whilst basically mid-dive and kill me first shot. This causes me to scream at the computer 'he didnt even wait 1 f*cking second and shoots me between the eyes when i been laying there for 2 minutes and my shot goes over the f*cking moon!!!" lol

[Anxiety]

they could use the suppression effect without the sound... when you scope in you get that effect (really quickly) and it just goes from unfocused to focused, this could indicate you don't know hwhere your aiming.. and it would be a realistic way to say " why aren't my bullets going here?" -why ??

becuase you haven't focused yet..


Anxiety.