Removal of Ammo Bag

[[T]Terranova7]

So here's a thought, and I know a lot of people might not particularly think it's a good idea. As it is, I find the use of the ammo bag somewhat gamey.

An ammo guy in the squad provides infinite ammunition which means virtually unlimited rockets, missiles, frag grenades, smoke grenades, mines, slams, C4 etc available right on the frontlines. What really kills it is that the ammo giving player can receive a fresh new ammo bag from the one he just dropped, not to mention the realism in that the ammo bag carries quite practically every type of munition in the world in that tiny little bag.

Right now, supply drops from helos and supply trucks aren't used too often by players thanks to the ammo rifleman and automatic rifleman classes. How many times has the Infantry squad needed to fall back to a nearby Bunker, Firebase or request some form of supply drop? Hardly ever, as even if there isn't an ammo guy in the squad it's usually the next man to die that will spawn in as one.

I think removing the ammo bag would be a good move. As a missed missile from a Heavy AT man might result in the squad pulling back to rearm, rather than having jonny-on-the-spot pull out a new missile from his pocket.

- On a side note, the Ammo Rifleman could receive claymores and/or maybe a shotgun to make it useful again. The Automatic Rifleman is still useful even without the ammo bag.

[SleepyHe4d]

Agreed, it would also get rid of another class which would be good imo.

I still wish they would accept the suggestion of spawning without a kit. Is there a list anywhere that says what suggestions they're working on or have accepted instead of just the "already suggested" list?

[Rudd]

I like the logic of your suggestion, however I think ammo bags should be kept in some capacity, perhaps decreasing the amount of ammo it gives.

You are 100% correct that the bag is killed by how it gets regenerated from a dropped bag.

[l|Bubba|l]

It will be fixed with the next patch.

[$kelet0r]

I agree - worst of all is its auto heal function using the bandages
I'd prefer if rallypoints became ammo points again

[RCMoonPie]

I think removing the ammo bag would be a good move. As a missed missile from a Heavy AT man might result in the squad pulling back to rearm, rather than having jonny-on-the-spot pull out a new missile from his pocket.

I agree with most of the reasoning behind your post.

But...although I agree that it couldn't be "pulled from a pocket"...it is possible that other squad members carry ammo for a larger weapon within a squad.
This is done with mortars, someone carries the tube, someone carries the base-plate, someone carries the optics, Everyone carries ammo. It is done with an MG as well. Someone carries the gun, someone carries a tripod, ammo is dispersed among all.
This goes on down to batteries for the comm.

This is represented by having the ammo bag.
I just dont think it needs to be infinite.

[$kelet0r]

I think removing the ammo bag would be a good move. As a missed missile from a Heavy AT man might result in the squad pulling back to rearm, rather than having jonny-on-the-spot pull out a new missile from his pocket.

I agree with most of the reasoning behind your post.

But...although I agree that it couldn't be "pulled from a pocket"...it is possible that other squad members carry ammo for a larger weapon within a squad.
This is done with mortars, someone carries the tube, someone carries the base-plate, someone carries the optics, Everyone carries ammo. It is done with an MG as well. Someone carries the gun, someone carries a tripod, ammo is dispersed among all.
This goes on down to batteries for the comm.

This represented by having the ammo bag.
I just dont think it needs to be infinite.

It's in the bags left at the rally point
The ammo bag seems to be one of those hardcoded things - it already rearms much slower than its BF2 counterpart but further changes are likely simply not possible

[[T]Terranova7]

I like the logic of your suggestion, however I think ammo bags should be kept in some capacity, perhaps decreasing the amount of ammo it gives.

You are 100% correct that the bag is killed by how it gets regenerated from a dropped bag.

Personally I'd rather see it removed period.

People currently talk about supply lines, conservation of ammunition, logistics etc. All of which are non-existent to the infantry squad in PR. A squad can operate on any portion of the map, miles and miles away from the nearest bunker or firebase and supply themselves with a perpetual amount of ammunition.

Take the Insurgents on Al Basrah for example. You get one Insurgent, and everyone else ambusher and you have a infinite supply of IEDs. That Insurgent squad can operate outside the British main base, blowing armor and vehicles to hell for hours on end.

Take the simple Heavy AT guy and his ammo guy. This combination can literally destroy an dozens upon dozens of vehicles without the need to fall back and resupply at a rearward bunker or firebase once. Basically, looking at it in a math perspective, Heavy-AT + Ammo Guy > Every Tank in your Army.

Removal of the Ammo Bag would see squads falling back to rearm. Supply Crates given by the choppers and trucks would become even more useful. An actual supply line might exist!

[Warmagi]

Agree with that. Either remove it completly or make it to resupply just ammunition. No nades, no rockets, smokes, mines etc. which I think is impossible. Soldiers will take care themselfs without ammo bag just fine.

[SleepyHe4d]

Squad rallies need to be completely removed for similar reasons. It just makes the squad kind of a one squad army and it diminishes the usefulness of transport helis and apcs (for their intended use anyhow).

That brings up another thing, is it possible to set limits on what vehicles squad members can use if other squad members are using certain vehicles? Like make it impossible for more than one apc to be used by a squad and also make it impossible for squads using tanks to use apcs. Seriously I've only ever seen apcs used as light attack vehicles so the devs need to reinforce the idea that it's a squad support and transport vehicle.

[Sadist_Cain]

Woa positive response

Hell yes get rid of them, though I do agree they should be kept *in some form* e.g. Autorifleman carrying 1 Bag of standard rifle ammo that can supply 6 clips... 1 for each squad member

And how about making new Ammo Riflemen so he can only resupply one type of person e.g. L-AT ammo man, H-AT Ammo man, C4 + Mine ammo man.
Each carrying 1 reload for their specific designation

Add a squad limitation so only one type of ammo man can be in each squad so you can only resupply 1 *specialist* piece of kit in a squad and I think that'd be awesome
It would really encourage working in pairs when operating a valued piece of kit in a squad, thus reducing the capacity for smacktardage

Anyone think that's unreasonable?

[[T]Terranova7]

Woa positive response

Hell yes get rid of them, though I do agree they should be kept *in some form* e.g. Autorifleman carrying 1 Bag of standard rifle ammo that can supply 6 clips... 1 for each squad member

And how about making new Ammo Riflemen so he can only resupply one type of person e.g. L-AT ammo man, H-AT Ammo man, C4 + Mine ammo man.
Each carrying 1 reload for their specific designation

Add a squad limitation so only one type of ammo man can be in each squad so you can only resupply 1 *specialist* piece of kit in a squad and I think that'd be awesome
It would really encourage working in pairs when operating a valued piece of kit in a squad, thus reducing the capacity for smacktardage

Anyone think that's unreasonable?

Problem is, that's not really possible. I think think simply adopting this simple solution works best.

__________

Anyhow, SleepyHe4d that's an interesting thought about the rallies. You are right in that transport vehicles are hardly ever used thanks to rally points. Thing is though with that, regrouping the squad would become exceedingly difficult.

Normally what an Infantry squad does is when someone dies, they'll wait for the others to spawn at the rally point and regroup at some middle ground between the rally and the target. Without the rally... O man... you'd have to wait for your guys to come back from a nearby bunker or firebase and/or the main base.

Granted, having firebases and bunkers would be top priority in this case. So it could work it in this regard. Basically, you'd be restricted to spawning on bunkers, firebases and your own main base. Not having a commander means failure. Might even see squads dedicated to defending these assets.

It's a whole different subject though, probably worth starting a thread over.

[Rudd]

It's a whole different subject though, probably worth starting a thread over.

Would be a good discussion.

Still back on topic, the debate is very interesting. However I still say that ammo bag has to be kept in some form. I like having the AT-ammo rifleman duo and that there is another guy in the squad with a non-combat role.

But the overiding arguement in my opinion is that its realistic to have a guy with extra ammo.

Nerf, do not remove plz...pretty plz

[[T]Terranova7]

Would be a good discussion.

Still back on topic, the debate is very interesting. However I still say that ammo bag has to be kept in some form. I like having the AT-ammo rifleman duo and that there is another guy in the squad with a non-combat role.

But the overiding arguement in my opinion is that its realistic to have a guy with extra ammo.

Nerf, do not remove plz...pretty plz

Still, I'm not sure how much the ammo bag could be nerfed, due to the limits of the engine and what not. At the same time, I'm trying to achieve a desired effect where squads would have to make use of supply points. Imagine having to request a friendly chopper to come in and drop a supply crate, or having to pull back to a firebase because your position was overrun by enemy armor, and your AT guy expended all of his rockets/missiles.

[burghUK]

i think the insurgents on al basrah should keep it as its all to easy to run outta ammo when ambushing the airport and its miles to the nearest cache.

[SleepyHe4d]

I like having the AT-ammo rifleman duo

Sorry but sadly, even though that is fun, that is the main reason it should be removed. People just simply should not be able to do that. Light AT should get their 1 or 2 extra missiles back though.

About the rallies, I think I mentioned it in my first thread but I guess a bunch of the stuff I put in there got overlooked because I just threw a bunch of random suggestions all in one thread. I suppose I'll make a new thread for this suggestion even with a poll to go along with it, heck it couldn't be too much of a bother could it?

i think the insurgents on al basrah should keep it as its all to easy to run outta ammo when ambushing the airport and its miles to the nearest cache.

Supply trucks maybe? Either that or pick a different area to IED.

[burghUK]

insurgents should keep the ammo bag. on al basrah when ur ambushing at airport its too easy to run outta ammo and its miles back to the nearest cache.

[Rudd]

Still, Imagine having to request a friendly chopper to come in and drop a supply crate, or having to pull back to a firebase because your position was overrun by enemy armor,

Tis fun...unless ur on mestia or fools road

Surely you can change the amount of ammo you can glean from a ammo bag?

Kinda like how field dressings heal you for x amount where as first aid bags in bf2 heal completely?

The at-ammo rifleman duo is 1) conducive to teamplay 2) fun 3) Realistic, as AT operate in teams and if I'm not mistaken often have one guy operating the weapon and other guy to carry ammo and reload?