Removal of Ammo Bag

[[T]Terranova7]

insurgents should keep the ammo bag. on al basrah when ur ambushing at airport its too easy to run outta ammo and its miles back to the nearest cache.

But Crack, this is exactly one of the reasons why ammo bags are a problem IMO. An ambush is an ambush, it doesn't nor shouldn't last long. Where as on a map like Al Basrah, you'll have Insurgents sitting outside the base for hours, pumping out IEDs thanks to who I call Jonny-on-the-Spot.

Also, Dr2bRudd it may be conducive to teamwork, but the same can be argued for the return of the SL spawn. It's a problem that the guy carrying ammo can pick receive it back, and that he/she can rearm just about anyone and anything. There was a time when my guys on Sunset were getting nade spammed, and it lasted for 5 minutes straight. It was pretty obvious that these guys were sitting behind a wall, constantly reloading on extra frags via the ammo bag.

[SleepyHe4d]

3) Realistic, as AT operate in teams and if I'm not mistaken often have one guy operating the weapon and other guy to carry ammo and reload?

Sure, for Heavy AT systems. To simulate that I'd be all for making it to where a team mate has be within 5 feet of the Heavy AT user with his knife out for the Heavy AT user to be able to use the system. This could also be an excuse to unnerf it and also give the kit a SMG.

[BloodBane611]

I'd prefer if rallypoints became ammo points again

Yarr. Seconded.

I don't like the unlimited ammobags, I think removing the unlimited ammo to the rallies is a much more realistic approach. We'll see what the DEVs do in the patch though, I'm pretty sure they're going to address his. They play PR too

[ReaperMAC]

We'll see what the DEVs do in the patch though, I'm pretty sure they're going to address his. They play PR too

They aren't removing ammo bags completely in the next patch.

[Expendable Grunt]

I endorse this event or product.

Ammo-bag-begone!

Maybe turn the MEC ammo rifleman into some form of pointman (fictional military force), get rid of the other ones if they don't exist.

EDIT: Maybe script an object that rearms only a particular kit, perhaps.

[BloodBane611]

Hmmm...a tester wink. What significance can it contain? Anyhow, I'm going to go ahead and assume that means this has been addressed by the DEVs.

[gclark03]

Is there some way to let soldiers share ammunition? For example, a rifleman with a G3 would be able to give another squad member a mag or two, but wouldn't be able to share any MG belts with the automatic rifleman or give rockets to the Rifleman/Heavy AT.

Alternatively, there needs to be some member of the squad who distributes ammo passively - without a bag. He would carry rockets (Rifleman AT only?), MG belts, and assault rifle mags, but would only have a finite supply of ammo before he has to return to a supply crate and rearm. He would have a sprint duration penalty, carrying so much ordnance; given his pure support role in the squad, this should be a reasonable and (dare I say it?) realistic trade-off. For balancing purposes, however, it is necessary that this ammo-bearing kit is not heavily armed and cannot rearm himself - something which is probably hardcoded if you guys can't prevent Auto Riflemen from resupplying their own ammo bags.

[ReaperMAC]

Hmmm...a tester wink. What significance can it contain?

None.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Still, I'm not sure how much the ammo bag could be nerfed, due to the limits of the engine and what not. At the same time, I'm trying to achieve a desired effect where squads would have to make use of supply points. Imagine having to request a friendly chopper to come in and drop a supply crate, or having to pull back to a firebase because your position was overrun by enemy armor, and your AT guy expended all of his rockets/missiles.

Man, you guys are never happy are you?

-The grenadier kit was nerfed, made requestable, and ammo taken away from it so people couldn't spam nades as easily.

-The ammo rifleman kit was not given optics, so if anyone actually plays it, he is cripled enough.

-The SAW is requestable, so that is pretty much nerfed as well.

-The Light AT was nerfed and does nothing against heavy armor now and it can't hit the backside of a barn, so that is that.

-The HAT is a huge POS now and even if you get a lock on a tank or apc and wait the 15 seconds you are in the open for your HAT redicules to settle, it takes TWO, count em, TWO shots to destroy a tank, so that is majorly nerfed.

So unless your side has uber armor, what are you supposed to do against enemy armor? I would much rather rely on my own squadmates which takes more teamwork than some outside tanker who I don't know jack about.

How would you not call that teamwork? You know what I DON'T call teamwork? Sitting in a ditch or tank, complaining and moaning about the other team(me/my squad) rearming itself and putting up a fight against an inferior force which obviously cannot pull itself together to attack and who would much rather rely on the Mods to give them the advantage instead of doing it themselves.


Seriously, stop complaining about a guy who rearms his HAT or Light AT from a magical bag because you already have 10x the advantage on him with all the nerfing and complicating that has happened to the mod.


This game doesn't and will never play out like real life, so stop trying to make it like it. You really think the US military (or any military at that) would fall back to rearm itself and lose its position lol? Maybe you should look back at a little battle called the "Battle of the Bulge." The military would never give up precious ground unless absolutely necessary.

[M1126 Stryker]

Man, you guys are never happy are you?

-The grenadier kit was nerfed, made requestable, and ammo taken away from it so people couldn't spam nades as easily.

-The ammo rifleman kit was not given optics, so if anyone actually plays it, he is cripled enough.

-The SAW is requestable, so that is pretty much nerfed as well.

-The Light AT was nerfed and does nothing against heavy armor now and it can't hit the backside of a barn, so that is that.

-The HAT is a huge POS now and even if you get a lock on a tank or apc and wait the 15 seconds you are in the open for your HAT redicules to settle, it takes TWO, count em, TWO shots to destroy a tank, so that is majorly nerfed.

So unless your side has uber armor, what are you supposed to do against enemy armor? I would much rather rely on my own squadmates which takes more teamwork than some outside tanker who I don't know jack about.

How would you not call that teamwork? You know what I DON'T call teamwork? Sitting in a ditch or tank, complaining and moaning about the other team(me/my squad) rearming itself and putting up a fight against an inferior force which obviously cannot pull itself together to attack and who would much rather rely on the Mods to give them the advantage instead of doing it themselves.


Seriously, stop complaining about a guy who rearms his HAT or Light AT from a magical bag because you already have 10x the advantage on him with all the nerfing and complicating that has happened to the mod.

I agree with this whole post.

[Rudd]

Man, you guys are never happy are you?

-The grenadier kit was nerfed, made requestable, and ammo taken away from it so people couldn't spam nades as easily.

-The ammo rifleman kit was not given optics, so if anyone actually plays it, he is cripled enough.

-The SAW is requestable, so that is pretty much nerfed as well.

-The Light AT was nerfed and does nothing against heavy armor now and it can't hit the backside of a barn, so that is that.

-The HAT is a huge POS now and even if you get a lock on a tank or apc and wait the 15 seconds you are in the open for your HAT redicules to settle, it takes TWO, count em, TWO shots to destroy a tank, so that is majorly nerfed.

So unless your side has uber armor, what are you supposed to do against enemy armor? I would much rather rely on my own squadmates which takes more teamwork than some outside tanker who I don't know jack about.

How would you not call that teamwork? You know what I DON'T call teamwork? Sitting in a ditch or tank, complaining and moaning about the other team(me/my squad) rearming itself and putting up a fight against an inferior force which obviously cannot pull itself together to attack and who would much rather rely on the Mods to give them the advantage instead of doing it themselves.


Seriously, stop complaining about a guy who rearms his HAT or Light AT from a magical bag because you already have 10x the advantage on him with all the nerfing and complicating that has happened to the mod.


This game doesn't and will never play out like real life, so stop trying to make it like it. You really think the US military (or any military at that) would fall back to rearm itself and lose its position lol? Maybe you should look back at a little battle called the "Battle of the Bulge." The military would never give up precious ground unless absolutely necessary.

That is remarkably logical.

Not sure how applicable the battle of the bulge is here, different time and war.

Giving up ground seems more likely now, since each soldier represents a considerable investment and back home is less willing to suffer casualties.

But surely you would agree that having an ammo rifleman capable of simulating an unlimited amount of ammo is just not good when there are plenty of realistic ideas that are conducive to teamplay- supply drops etc.

So its worth discussing.

[Expendable Grunt]

SoldierOfFortune, you need to work on your LAT aim if you can't hit things with it.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

That is remarkably logical.

Not sure how applicable the battle of the bulge is here, different time and war.

Giving up ground seems more likely now, since each soldier represents a considerable investment and back home is less willing to suffer casualties.

But surely you would agree that having an ammo rifleman capable of simulating an unlimited amount of ammo is just not good when there are plenty of realistic ideas that are conducive to teamplay- supply drops etc.

So its worth discussing.

Supply boxes are not practical. If your squad is going on its own, you need to be self-sufficient and CO trucks or choppers are not everywhere and I would never depend on a chopper, especially on maps like Kashan. And 1 grenade can take out that precious supply box, so it really doesn't have any lasting effect like a player with ammo would. And they involve less teamwork than an ammo bag. Just 1 click, and the supply box is down. With an ammo bag, you gotta wait in a safe spot and have someone cover you will you reload or else you guys will be dead.

And if you want to talk about realism, how is it realistic that the HAT cannot destroy a tank in 1 shot? They may fix that in the next patch, but there are plenty of things in this game that cannot be replicated in real life, and I feel the HAT reticle delay is one of them.

SoldierOfFortune, you need to work on your LAT aim if you can't hit things with it.

THe thing is ****. I can sit there and aim and it still goes in an arc or off towards another direction. It also lacks range, which I can understand, but if it is going to lack range, at least make it accurate. It is only 1 shot after all. And it is basically useless against moving targets at medium to longer distances because the arc and reticles are so bad. One little move, and it goes far right or left.

I know how to shoot ingame too. I am not talking about myself though because I am usually Officer/SL, I am talking about players in general who use it and can't hit jack with it, even veterans.

[ReaperMAC]

And if you want to talk about realism, how is it realistic that the HAT cannot destroy a tank in 1 shot? They may fix that in the next patch, but there are plenty of things in this game that cannot be replicated in real life, and I feel the HAT reticle delay is one of them.

Not to mention that they are optically guided while simultaneously creating a "lock-on" signal for the guys in the tank. A weapon like that doesn't create a radar-signature for it to be detected. Now I understand why they did it, atleast give the tankers a chance.

Anyways, with regards to this topic, a simple compromise would be to reduce the ammo in the ammo bags, to the point where they can reload 1 rocket or a couple of mags, but not enough to reload the bag.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Not to mention that they are optically guided while simultaneously creating a "lock-on" signal for the guys in the tank. A weapon like that doesn't create a radar-signature for it to be detected. Now I understand why they did it, atleast give the tankers a chance.

Anyways, with regards to this topic, a simple compromise would be to reduce the ammo in the ammo bags, to the point where they can reload 1 rocket or a couple of mags, but not enough to reload the bag.

I don't even see the big deal or why time should be spent on fixing the ammo bags when nothing is broken with them. If someone is really worried about 1 wounded guy healing himself through 1 bag, then they might want to reevaluate their ingame skills or if they are actually working with a squad instead of lone wolfing because a squad shouldn't have a problem with 1 guy healing himself.

The fact is, most of these complaints are made by the same people and it is obvious they must have some major beef or problem against it which they experienced before and were on the receiving end of. If this was such a major issue, people would be complaining about it ingame.

[ReaperMAC]

I don't even see the big deal or why time should be spent on fixing the ammo bags when nothing is broken with them. If someone is really worried about 1 wounded guy healing himself through 1 bag, then they might want to reevaluate their ingame skills or if they are actually working with a squad instead of lone wolfing because a squad shouldn't have a problem with 1 guy healing himself.

The fact is, most of these complaints are made by the same people and it is obvious they must have some major beef or problem against it which they experienced before and were on the receiving end of. If this was such a major issue, people would be complaining about it ingame.

Agreed, while I don't think it is extremely broken, its a little arcady (same with medics, but that argument is soo lame) but it does have its draw backs. HAT takes a while to aim, reload, sight, etc. Ammo bag takes a while to reload to. When the HAT fires, you should be able to spot them (smoke trails), if you can't do that, then the "HAT + Ammo guy > Every tank" prevails. But, I've rarely see that happen.

Though, we will see how the changes in the next patch pans out. By then, we can effectively judge if removing the ammo bags is a good/bad idea.

[Expendable Grunt]

THe thing is ****. I can sit there and aim and it still goes in an arc or off towards another direction. It also lacks range, which I can understand, but if it is going to lack range, at least make it accurate. It is only 1 shot after all. And it is basically useless against moving targets at medium to longer distances because the arc and reticles are so bad. One little move, and it goes far right or left.

I know how to shoot ingame too. I am not talking about myself though because I am usually Officer/SL, I am talking about players in general who use it and can't hit jack with it, even veterans.

It's not a long range weapon, IRL only 300m. In game, I don't use it beyond 150, depending on which one I have.

[Warmagi]

Last time I used LAT I was firing at over 300 m(250 -320) and my SL was amazed looking threw SOFLAM that Im hitting targets with such accuracy. And yes, I was reloading from ammo bag. I was shooting from a hill, something like 25 -30 shoots. To addition to that we were firing HAT rounds,grenade luncher and machine gunner into that villege until our forces were able to capture it due to the minimal resistance.

And what I dont like about ammo bag? Not the thing that someone was seating on a hill creating hell on earth with all the explosions and lead, being more effective than any tank and APC together. I dont like that I was there, that we had at least couple of trucks full of rockets, ammo and other supplies in one little BAG!!!!

So... Soldier of Fortune (no offence intended) stop being an ignorant. If you run out of ammo in the middle of firefight either you need to hide, take some ammo from others(which we cant do in BF due to the engine) or pick up enemy gun and his ammo, or... resupply in a place where supplies are stored. And not by taking out rockets, grenades (how many times we spammed the flag with nades for a few minutes - that shouldnt be happening)and other counless things from a little bag.

[[T]Terranova7]

I don't even see the big deal or why time should be spent on fixing the ammo bags when nothing is broken with them. If someone is really worried about 1 wounded guy healing himself through 1 bag, then they might want to reevaluate their ingame skills or if they are actually working with a squad instead of lone wolfing because a squad shouldn't have a problem with 1 guy healing himself.

The fact is, most of these complaints are made by the same people and it is obvious they must have some major beef or problem against it which they experienced before and were on the receiving end of. If this was such a major issue, people would be complaining about it ingame.

Who said the ammo bags were broken? The SL spawn wasn't broken, but it was removed for what, to better the gameplay right? The objective here is to remove the ammo bag in the hope of achieving the same goal.

Keep comments like your second paragraph to yourself, like Warmagi said you're borderline being arrogant.

[Tef]

Is there some way to let soldiers share ammunition? For example, a rifleman with a G3 would be able to give another squad member a mag or two, but wouldn't be able to share any MG belts with the automatic rifleman or give rockets to the Rifleman/Heavy AT.

Alternatively, there needs to be some member of the squad who distributes ammo passively - without a bag. He would carry rockets (Rifleman AT only?), MG belts, and assault rifle mags, but would only have a finite supply of ammo before he has to return to a supply crate and rearm. He would have a sprint duration penalty, carrying so much ordnance; given his pure support role in the squad, this should be a reasonable and (dare I say it?) realistic trade-off. For balancing purposes, however, it is necessary that this ammo-bearing kit is not heavily armed and cannot rearm himself - something which is probably hardcoded if you guys can't prevent Auto Riflemen from resupplying their own ammo bags.

Thats actuallly not a bad idea.