Remove squad rally points?

[SGT.JOKER]

1 word to this suggestion
NO.
Keeping a squad together is hard enough as it is, coupled with the fact certin maps need RP's to be any fun. That being said this will probably turn into a "fun vs realism" thread. Being without the SL spawn is and having only the RP is perfect, and it should stay this way.

[OkitaMakoto]

No.

What would we do on Kashan? I would NEVER play that map without Rally Points... the maps are far too big and there arent always enough players to be dedicated transport.

Besides, the rally point is a great middle ground for the parties who want a spawn and the parties who want semi-realistic feeling inducing gameplay with great squad play.

[ReaperMAC]

Rather than "I have L-AT I'm going for the kill... Oh I'm dead, I'll get another in 30 seconds"

Which is why they removed SL and APC spawning

[[T]Terranova7]

DOOOO IT.... DOOOOO IIIITTTTTT!!!!!!

Make the rally point an ammo store

Sick of fellows not valuing their virtual life. Dosn't need to be compensated with huge amounts of vehicles, it needs to be compensated with an forced training system to get a very large player base to grips with essential gameplay aspects such as TRANSPORT which isn't too hard.

will be awesome battle stress as an SL to keep my lads alive and get them into the most effective position where they can do the most damage and stay alive.

Rather than "I have L-AT I'm going for the kill... Oh I'm dead, I'll get another in 30 seconds"

Noooo you'll be DEAD (loosely speaking ) you won't pop back into life instantaniously and grab the same kit to "try again" more so, You're genetic copy will be flown in after a certain amount of time to reinforce the squad.

Or teamwork will fall apart Vet's will lock themselves away in closed rooms, no one will be trained and no one will be bother

WHAT IF for once people wanted to learn but MOST IMPORTANTLY TEACH just how freaking awesome it can be to just Forget about the Rally points for once.
Move your entire squad through a city loaded with hostiles, Your men get shot and wounded you must pull together to cover the medic (and his massive steel balls) as he dives in to give him essential first aid and pull him back to give Morphine and get him back into the fight

Everyone is on edge... everyone is alert NOONE wants to die and end up back at main.
I'm holding back making sure the formation is held; rather than watching the usual green clump of snot heading for a flag like the squadmembers been sneezed fresh from Rambos nose.
AK-47s start crackling, "DIVE FOR COVER!!!" grenades explode, "TEKNESH IS DOWN, MEEEEEDIIICC!!!!!" SUPPORTING FIRE KEEP US ALIVE!!!

And for once Squadleaders may just for ONCE say this...

"FALL BACK IT'S TOO HOT!!! DISENGAGE WE NEED EXTRACTION WE'RE FALLING APART!!!!!"
OMGZ0RZ! A call for help?!?! sooo not L33t

But very dam cool

Where am I right now?


Put simply *ahem* +1



Ok you go off to the Community mods and start off Project Fun *Hopefully* the mod will continue to thrive on to be Project Reality The arguement is stone cold but that's the name of the game (literally)



Exactly! Hence the need to really focus on Training which no one wants to do because they all go on here for themselves.
Now I'm not one to preach or tell you how to play your game, Just gonna say if no one teaches anyone just how great this mod can be as opposed to reducing it to a matter of hitpoints and respawn times/locations to compensate for stupidity in gameplay.

Retarded is a strong word to be using I highly doubt that anyone playing PR is "severly Mentally Challenged" and even if they were, compensate for the Difficulty

Tis easy enough to lead people who you origional think are idiots just because they don't see things your way, Change their minds! THAT is what defines a Leader!

/End Soapbox

P.S. I Know I'm holding back a Tidal wave with a sieve on this one but it would be seriously awesome... However increase Funkers and I think everyone will be surprised, Like I said we're gonna get nowhere if everyone is obsessed with keeping with their clanmates and not teaching others.

I guess I'm the only one who LOVES the Raw terror of not having a Rally point, I hate having to go and set up one of the buggers, I wanna lead my Soldiers into combat! not setup their Re-incarnation booth, Don't die then!

Isn't Spawning on Funkers enough??

***Funker = Firebase/Bunker


OK More reasonable... How about letting the SL have an RP limit... Say X2 Rallypoints can be set up?

I'm thinking the only place anyone sees an SL who dosn't set rallies is because hes a bad leader who can't be bothered.

I wanna try leading a NO RALLY Squad at some points and seeing if folk enjoy play when it HAS to be highly coordinated and tactical or else you're all dead.... Anyone up for that? Join my squad if you wanna follow orders and feel the atmosphere see if it's as good as thought or utter shite...

Well spoken. I agree with all the points.

Right now, most of the time in PR is spent fighting over rally points, not control points. You have this tiresome gameplay where you're battling the same squad over and over again. The part I really hate is how squads will set up a rally point as close as they can to an enemy control point, which means the defenders have to deal with an endless wave of opponents coming at them. The only way to stop the attack is to find and destroy the enemy rally point, which brings me back to the original point of where most of PR is spent fighting over damn rally points.

If we're keeping them, extend the range RPs can be dropped from CPs (Like 200 meters or more) and add some strict limits like only being to deploy one every 5 minutes.

[OkitaMakoto]

Im all for increased distance requirements for RPs, but that can only be done when all maps have enough distance between points. Unless of course, its possible to make it a per-map thing...

[M1126 Stryker]

So will this be the next step? First squad leader spawn gone and now this for the sake of a small amount realism over both gameplay and teamwork? Why not just rename the mod Project Tank Driving and Plane Camping and be done with it?

[00SoldierofFortune00]

So will this be the next step? First squad leader spawn gone and now this for the sake of a small amount realism over both gameplay and teamwork? Why not just rename the mod Project Tank Driving and Plane Camping and be done with it?

I know. Why not just get rid of the commander respawn assets as well because those can be placed closer to an actual flag than a rally point(but you guys didn't think about that, did you?) and the same argument will be used on that because a bunch of pansy players are mad they got killed quickly.

Hey, while we are at it, lets just make this game like counterstrike and have 1 life so that "it creates teamwork and a sense of realism because you value your life!" (sarcasm of course)

Or, the icing on the cake, make it where you have to walk for 30 minutes before you even get to fire your weapon at an enemy. That is realistic after all isn't it? That pretty much is just like the military because you sit around for a while, get told to do something (usually clean something or somethng to keep you occupied) and then you sit around some more, actually do something, than sit around some more and wait til the end of the day. (sarcasm of course, but if you guys want a sim, this is pretty much how the military is)

Seriously, the mod/game has already been pushed far enough and if you are complaining about respawning issues now, than maybe you should think about another game?

Is this mod now being run by 10% of the population playing it who are out of touch or what? I have been here since 0.2 and I have liked and had problems with patches here and there, but there becomes a point where it becomes rediculas and is catering to the few hardcore players on here. And usually, those hardcore players don't even know what they are talking about.

Trust me, I am or was at least, a hardcore player, but I know the difference between realism and gameplay crossing the line. I actually had just as much or more fun during the 0.3 days than currently because the mod was so easy to pick up and play. I have no problem with realism being used in the game, but when it starts catering to the 10%"hardcore" who spend more time posting on this forum than playing, it becomes a problem. I actually played Vanilla BF2 the other day and had fun because it was so easy to pick up and play. I definately like PR more, but my point is that is has far less frustrations than PR and as evident by 0.3, it doesn't need to be uber realistic to be fun. That is why we play this game after all, fun.

If you guys are looking for some super sim, than join the military and than you will figure out what a "real" sim is like. And that is not always fun.

/End Rant.

[SleepyHe4d]

Why not just rename the mod Project Tank Driving and Plane Camping and be done with it?

Well right now it's just Battlefield 2 with cool vehikalz and gunz.

Hell, as it is now squad leader spawning is more realistic than rally spawning since after the leader is dead you wouldn't have to keep fighting an endless wave. I'd rather have even that than rally points and with that you guys would still be able to keep it easy for you to keep your squads together. I'm not feeling the gameplay right now, it really does just feel like a more arcadey bf2 with better gunz and vehikalz.

[Tartantyco]

-Ok, as far as I can see the major objections for people is the prospect of long walks and squad cohesion. What they don't understand is that this would be fixed with by the removal of the squad rally and a few tweaks.

Long walks: The assets would become more valuable, have some strategic/tactical value and be placed with more care, making it not-such-a-long-walk all of a sudden(Increasing the number of spawn assets would be necessary). This would also facilitate more realistic combat. Incase you didn't know, armies don't usually fight down to the last man. They retreat when the casualties become to grievous in relation to the other side. This would mean that you would die less, therefore you wouldn't have to walk to the front again. There are many other factors that would negate this objection as well, but I I'm too lazy to list them right now.

Squad cohesion: The reason why there is a cohesion issue is because people don't really care that much. They can just spawn close to the squad, there's not much reason to have a cohesive squad because a spawn is close by so you can just screw tactics and not really care. From my experience change comes only from necessity and unless there's a good reason to stick together, employ effective tactics, etc, it won't happen. With the removal of the SL spawn the necessity has increased and from what I've seen most people are pleased with it, though I remember a lot of resistance to the suggestion previously, citing "squad cohesion." Squad cohesion does not come from spawn points, it comes from people working together.

-Stuff to do, got to stop writing.

[Sadist_Cain]

Firebases are far easier to spot than Rallypoints and there is a lot more fun in going to attack a properly built dug in fortifiaction because it requires coordination and bring up explosives etc. rather than searching for a load of bags buried in some rocks or a tree.

Bunkers can only be built on a capped flag and so are good in that they let your tema spawn closer up depending on how much ground they've captured.

The folk who set a FB close to 100m of a flag are just asking for it to be destroyed because it's so obvious.

This would actually make it so all players HAVE to think about their assets, because if they aren't there and they arent defended/moved then it's all over.
The arguement of "no one will play it properly except me!" dosn't work because people can always learn from the better players.

I play this thing for about 2-4 hours a day so I don't post here more than player, I just post what I think based on the amount I play.

Hence why I think I'm going to definately try leading a squad without rallypoints tonight. Anyone care to join me on the server? Will require an awesome load of teamwork

[Pluizert]

Rallypoints are neccesary for the big maps only and for attacking squads it is much better to have.
For some maps (OGT, EJOD) i think 1 well placed bunker/fb is enough to get the control of the map. As long as there are people defending/rebuilding the structure.
And not all players move to the next flag to capture...

I like to see 32 players on a tactical point defending it and creating no way through for the enemy engineer/spec-ops. Thats invasion!

[Sadist_Cain]

Firebases are far easier to spot than Rallypoints and there is a lot more fun in going to attack a properly built dug in fortifiaction because it requires coordination and bring up explosives etc. rather than searching for a load of bags buried in some rocks or a tree.

Bunkers can only be built on a capped flag and so are good in that they let your tema spawn closer up depending on how much ground they've captured.

The folk who set a FB close to 100m of a flag are just asking for it to be destroyed because it's so obvious.

This would actually make it so all players HAVE to think about their assets, because if they aren't there and they arent defended/moved then it's all over.
The arguement of "no one will play it properly except me!" dosn't work because people can always learn from the better players.

I play this thing for about 2-4 hours a day so I don't post here more than player, I just post what I think based on the amount I play.

Hence why I think I'm going to definately try leading a squad without rallypoints tonight. Anyone care to join me on the server? Will require an awesome load of teamwork and building Think of the atmosphere
Who's gonna join me?

[RCMoonPie]

Removal would be disastrous to gameplay....period

Edit:
Just for the fact that in PR the maps are larger.
If the majority of a squad is wiped out in a good fire-fight, this leaves part of the squad accross the map....while others are spawning at another flag or worse, at the main...waiting on a vehicle.
Its not so bad if you are playing with a clan or the like.....but it can be disastrous in some cases while pubbing with 5 other strangers.

[SleepyHe4d]

Great arguement!

Me too: No it wouldn't....period

Hence why I think I'm going to definately try leading a squad without rallypoints tonight. Anyone care to join me on the server? Will require an awesome load of teamwork and building Think of the atmosphere
Who's gonna join me?

It's gonna be hard to get people to play along with that playstyle if they just have the choice to go join a squad with a rally, not to mention you don't get to see the gameplay effects it would have on fighting against the other team too.

What I'm trying to figure out is why so many people are against this. Are they afraid of the requirement of better coordination and teamwork? Why aren't they playing BF2?

It's friggin impossible to convince or argue against people that want that. ><

[Warmagi]

I voted yes.

Why?

Because of endless atacks on the flag which you/they just defended so well.

I'm all for trying to play without a rally.

[Tartantyco]

Removal would be disastrous to gameplay....period

-You're disatrous to gameplay.

Just for the fact that in PR the maps are larger.
If the majority of a squad is wiped out in a good fire-fight, this leaves part of the squad accross the map....while others are spawning at another flag or worse, at the main...waiting on a vehicle.

-If the majority of a squad is wiped out, it's because they suck and the guys who wiped them out should be rewarded for their skill by not being attacked by them again in 50 secs.

Its not so bad if you are playing with a clan or the like.....but it can be disastrous in some cases while pubbing with 5 other strangers.

-That's because people play in an arcady fashion, and that's because the game does not punish arcade gaming. If it did I assure you that the strangers you play with would be much more skilled.

[Deadfast]

[kenwayy]
Short answer: No.
Longer answer: Hell no.
[/kenwayy]

Why not?
It's simple:

What would this be good for?
It surely would be realistic, no argument on that, but it would place all responsibility on a one single person - the commander. A wrong man on CO position would be a disaster even for the best team in universe.
Just try to imagine the situation with incompetent CO on a map of Kashan's size. Would you seriously want to run 5km every time you get killed just because your commander didn't set up a firebase and some noobs drove all the vehicles to the middle of f'ing nowhere?
Call me whatever you want to, but I wouldn't.


Another problem is - will it promote teamplay?
In my opinion, not at all. It would make the squad completely spread over the whole map just because 90% of people won't even bother thinking about waiting for the rest of his squad. I'll bet my shoes on that.


And BTW:

-You're disatrous to gameplay.

You're behaving like a 12 years old for no reason.

[SleepyHe4d]

If you're team is that horrible on teamwork and playing in general then you don't deserve to win in the first place, this would just seal the deal. This is a team game you know.

will it promote teamplay?

I don't see why not, people would catch on that there is a way bigger disadvantage when not using teamwork.

You're behaving like a 12 years old for no reason.

Nothing wrong with that reply to a post that has no arguement. It gets the message across.

[Warmagi]

And another topic changed into flaming flame after flame. Maybe just make a topic called "Flame a lame" and post there before posting in a nice clean thread?

[Deadfast]

I don't know on who that flame war point was aimed at, but if it's on me, I'm sure my post brought there a much more than just the mentioned flame war.

@SleepyHe4d:
I play PR long enough to know that most of the players will just refuse to wait 10 minutes to fully regroup just to get killed 2 minutes later and repeat.
Besides, just as I say - this would place too many responsibility on one person (the CO). An idler in CO position would mean a round is over for one of the teams.