Has sniping been fixed since the old days?

ir0nside · Post by **ir0nside** » 2008-02-20 07:24

Just wondering.

Back when I last played PR - and I have no idea what version the game was in at that point, but it has to have been almost a year or s - but some changes had been made to Sniper Rifles to "nerf" them temporarily until proper ballistics and such were implemented as had been in the works at the time.

Well, I'm considering rejoining, and would love to join up to find that sniping is now difficult, yet rewarding. I want to have my shots be hard to make, taking time, patience, and skill.. rather than be hard due to limitations like damage nerfs and accuracy/deviation nerfs. Having a bolt-action have a noticeable spread at 100m is terrible.

Have these things been fixed?

Thanks all.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-02-20 07:40

Sniper rifles are flawed with regards to accuracy. They should be shooting something like sub-MOA groups while prone, stationary and zoomed. Instead you shoot 7.68 MOA groups under the same conditions with all conventional army's sniper rifles.

ir0nside · Post by **ir0nside** » 2008-02-20 07:48

Well, keep in mind.. I'm not fussing or anything - I haven't played in forever. I'm simply curious as to whether or not this issue has been fixed.. but after almost a year, it sounds like it hasn't? I stumbled on another thread where apparently there is an accuracy bug "fixed for next patch" or somesuch.

Oh well. =(

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-02-20 08:04

There's more to the game than sniping. PM me and I'll get you on the TS.

Also, what are "MOA" groups?

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-02-20 08:07

Another thing that has been done is with the gravity modifier (which determines the acceleration due to gravity and hence how fast things fall to the ground). It has been reduced a helluva lot from a realistic value of ~0.67 to 0.1. This means rounds from a sniper rifle follow a extremely flat trajectory. Increasing the muzzle velocity would have had a similar effect. This means that a sniper has to counteract the drop a lot less that he should. The official reason for doing this is to "zero" the weapon but to be honest it is a poor way of approximating it.

In real life the rounds also slow down due to drag. This increases the time in which gravity has to act on the rounds and hence increases the drop again. Jonny and I have been looking at incorporating this drag.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-02-20 08:11

Expendable Grunt wrote:There's more to the game than sniping. PM me and I'll get you on the TS.

Also, what are "MOA" groups?

"MOA" groups are bullet groups measured in MOA. A MOA is a minute of an arc. A minute of an arc is the equivalent to 1/60 of a degree.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-02-20 08:22

Oh, I know about arcs n stuff. Never saw an acronym for it though.

Any idea if the gravitational constant of the game is going to be restored when we find a better way of making the trajectory flatter? (you said increasing velocity would do it)

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-02-20 08:52

Expendable Grunt wrote:Oh, I know about arcs n stuff. Never saw an acronym for it though.

Any idea if the gravitational constant of the game is going to be restored when we find a better way of making the trajectory flatter? (you said increasing velocity would do it)

There is no need to make the trajectory flatter. The flat trajectory is a result of the low gravitational constant. The reason it is flat is so that @ 600m (zeroing distance) the bullet hasn't dropped sufficiently to say that where you aim is different to where the bullet hits. This is a poor way of doing things. Realistic ballistic should be maintained, not changed so this can be done.

I suppose if the zeroing problem is fixed then there will be no need for the low gravity constant. I've found a solution but it isn't optimal. To achieve a zero you need a space between the sights and barrel (which currently are in the same position) as well as the ability to rotate the sights relative to the barrel. My solution moves the barrel down and changes the angle of it relative to the sights. This mean that bullets come out lower than the barrel of the model and it can present problems when shooting over statics.

The sights should be the ones that are moved but that isn't that easy. I suppose you could change the position of the sight/scope model but that in itself presents three problems. Firstly, you don't know how much to move the model up to get it the same as it's real life counterpart. Secondly, what do you do about vBF2 models which you can't change? Thirdly, it isn't quick like putting a few lines of code in.

Post by **bosco_** » 2008-02-20 10:32

Expendable Grunt wrote:There's more to the game than sniping.

So true.

ir0nside · Post by **ir0nside** » 2008-02-20 10:51

Expendable Grunt wrote:There's more to the game than sniping. PM me and I'll get you on the TS.

Also, what are "MOA" groups?

Thanks for that. I mean, obviously - me being concerned about broken sniping mechanics means that I'm a sniper-whore who doesn't contribute to the team. I know how to use TS, and quite often was the one heading up the "tactical" channels back when they first started showing up on Gloryhoundz and whatnot.

Might have come off as a bit defensive, but hey - teamwork is my middle name, and I don't appreciate the dig at my character.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-02-20 10:55

Actually I was inviting you onto my clans TS for a few rounds to get you up to speed but...ok.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-02-20 11:05

Being a sniper doesn't preclude you from being team player. Hell, one of a sniper's main job's in the real world is to gather intelligence. I've seen sniper's in-game who have done this with great effect.

SuperTimo · Post by **SuperTimo** » 2008-02-20 13:52

sniping isn't all about 1337 snipzoring as ned siad in battle it can be really benifical having a sniper in a high spot spotting enemy troops.

for example on jabal in the ity having a sniper on the hotel or on the top of the factory is good as they get a good view of the city and surrounding areas.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-02-20 16:49

Snipers in the modern, more urban battlefield are becoming plain hunters/killers. There's hardly enough room for the old school hide and shoot once in a while on a mobile/urban fight. A good sniper working in a squad or "stick and move" killing can be ridiculously effective. The problem is that most CO's irl don't know how to use their snipers and thus relegate back to just using them as scouts when instead they are one of the best, most highly trained, anti-infantry weapons there is...just ask the old Russian women

.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-02-20 17:22

Jonny wrote:Actually, ned, that method means that (for the sniper) they need to get the barrel over the static. It makes it a bit more challenging and stops things like being able to only just have the sight over the hill and still hit.

I believe that only occurs if the origin of the weapon is positioned above the model's barrel. The sights and projectile starting points are both located on the origin by default. This could also happen if the obstruction is narrower than the distance between the origin and the body's collision hitbox I suppose.

Having the M16A4's projectile start position 2.5" below the origin looks really off. The origin is approximately in-line with barrel. The barrel points one direction yet the rounds go elsewhere totally.