This game is great but a few suggestions

Engineer981 · Post by **Engineer981** » 2008-02-21 00:01

I first off want to tell you how great this game's mechanics are. I bought BF2 just for this mod.

But, I have a problem with the current way the command structure is set it, its both inefficient and unrealistic. So me and my clan leader were playing the other day. For some reason we couldn't even get into the same "squad" and when we jumped into the same tank, well we died. We couldn't even create our own. It got extremely frustrating for the both of us and apparently of another clan member when he played.

Heres a list of a few suggestions I have:

A) Scrap the BF2 command system. Either set it up in squads and fire teams as in real life, or just have a list of classes like this:

Rifleman(13)
Medic(1/4)
Support(1/4)
Sniper(1/1)
Pilot(2/5)

This way people will be assigned a class and they'll be in that the whole game. Another thing that frustrated us is the fact we had to reapply every time we died. In my opinion, this doesn't make anything realistic. When you join the military, you get assigned a MOS and you stick with it, the commander doesn't change you.

B) Why can't I talk to the people on VOIP who happen to not to be in my squad? Is there any way you can add 2 channels, one for just the squad, and one for the team as a whole? They have that in Red Orchestra where they have a voice thing for people just in the same vehicle.

C) Apply everyone to drive the supply truck, not just engineers and squad leaders. I bet I could hop in one right now and quickly figure out how to drive it.

D) Reduce the waiting time for vehicles to respawn. I can see like some where between 5 and 10 minutes. But 15 or 20 minutes seems to be overkill.

I am new to this game and do not fully understand it yet. But I wanted to point out some of my suggestions that I feel would make it a better game.

Tartantyco · Post by **Tartantyco** » 2008-02-21 00:14

For some reason we couldn't even get into the same "squad"

-Maybe the squad was... full? Don't you know how to set up your own squad? And if by "squad" you mean team, it's called auto-balance.

and when we jumped into the same tank, well we died.

-Crewman kit. Read the manual.

We couldn't even create our own.

-Um, tank or squad?

It got extremely frustrating for the both of us and apparently of another clan member when he played.

-Read. Manual.

A) Scrap the BF2 command system. Either set it up in squads and fire teams as in real life, or just have a list of classes like this:

Rifleman(13)
Medic(1/4)
Support(1/4)
Sniper(1/1)
Pilot(2/5)

-Dumb idea, just above.

This way people will be assigned a class and they'll be in that the whole game. Another thing that frustrated us is the fact we had to reapply every time we died. In my opinion, this doesn't make anything realistic. When you join the military, you get assigned a MOS and you stick with it, the commander doesn't change you.

-But you're not joining the military, you're joining a server. And it's a simulation comprised of maximum 64 players, not thousands, figure out where your logic runs into the wall.

B) Why can't I talk to the people on VOIP who happen to not to be in my squad?

-Because the BF2 developers suck infinitely much.

Is there any way you can add 2 channels, one for just the squad, and one for the team as a whole?

-Teamspeak.

C) Apply everyone to drive the supply truck, not just engineers and squad leaders. I bet I could hop in one right now and quickly figure out how to drive it.

-I don't think you comprehend what this mod aims to accomplish.

D) Reduce the waiting time for vehicles to respawn. I can see like some where between 5 and 10 minutes. But 15 or 20 minutes seems to be overkill.

-Yes, lets make the mod just like BF2...

I am new to this game and do not fully understand it yet. But I wanted to point out some of my suggestions that I feel would make it a better game.

-I'll explain further when I've taken off my arrogant ******* hat. Might take a day or something. Film at 11.

-Warning issued for unhelpful post content.

Post by **Rudd** » 2008-02-21 00:28

Welcome to the mod + forums.

Some stuff is hardcoded like VOIP, that means the devs arent able to touch it.

Sounds like you had the squad bug, it happens sometimes.

Engineer981 · Post by **Engineer981** » 2008-02-21 00:40

Wow, thanks for being remotely civil about it....

No, squads, like on the same team. And it wouldn't create a new one. We tried.

We both had crewman kit, and couldn't get in the same tank w/o dying cause we weren't on the same squad, because we couldn't get into the same squad

Squad, how am I going to create a tank

I did read the manual

The way the command system is set up is dumb in my opinion too. Really poor and inefficient. I understand it and again, I read the manual.

Why should I have to reapply every time I die. I think it would be better to have dedicated pilots, crewmen, AT riflemen, etc.

I will agree with you on that the BF2 people suck.

I have team speak and vent. And currently I can only speak to my squad over VOIP. So how about the other people not in my squad that don't have team speak or on a different clans one

This mod focus is on reality. How realistic is it that I cannot drive a truck as a medic.

I kinda agree with you on that, but at the same time, its only a game. Who likes chilling in spawn.

Thanks for being so nice about this. Great way to attract new players.

Engineer981 · Post by **Engineer981** » 2008-02-21 00:41

thanks Rudd

ayjazz · Post by **ayjazz** » 2008-02-21 00:58

Welcome to PR man.

Excuse that first reply, a lot of the community tends to have that kind of arrogant attitude, its one of our flaws.
Just try to ignore it and enjoy this great mod that the devs have made for us.

About your suggestions, yes there are some parts of the game that tend to be annoying, but after playing for awhile, you'll learn to get around them. Just keep practicing man.

SleepyHe4d · Post by **SleepyHe4d** » 2008-02-21 01:22

Wow, a bunch of those (or all) are going against exactly what PR is trying to be, so how about:

E) Don't like it, go play something that doesn't take teamwork and consideration/contribution. : \

Sorry man but it seems you have the wrong idea of what PR is. xD

Ok that might've been too harsh, but you sound and have the attitude like the type of person who would wait 20 mins for vehicles or drive off alone.

Post by **Mongolian_dude** » 2008-02-21 01:33

Engineer981 wrote:Wow, thanks for being remotely civil about it....

Yes, please refrain from mobbing people for differing opinions. It can be VERY offensive to have someone say that your idea is stupid, or ridiculous, because infact you are stating "Idiots have idiotic ideas. You have an idiotic idea, therefore you are an idiot", when they may be simply miss-informed or miss-understanding.

This is the biggest problem out community faces, is people being offensive or aggressive to new-comers.

Engineer981 wrote: A) Scrap the BF2 command system. Either set it up in squads and fire teams as in real life, or just have a list of classes like this:

Rifleman(13)
Medic(1/4)
Support(1/4)
Sniper(1/1)
Pilot(2/5)

This way people will be assigned a class and they'll be in that the whole game. Another thing that frustrated us is the fact we had to reapply every time we died. In my opinion, this doesn't make anything realistic. When you join the military, you get assigned a MOS and you stick with it, the commander doesn't change you.

Problems with this idea:

-Regressive, as it undoes all the game mechanics back till about 0.4 (Bronze age)
-Unrealistic, as military forces and doctrines are more complicated than this. This, within its limits, its attempted to be displayed in this mod.
-Unfair, as players will almost never get a chance to play as they want, reducing the amount of effort they put in and the fun they get out.

-Usually when you die in the military, you are replaced, as opposed to holding your rank and being born again. Commanders generally shouldnt be fighting. A commander not commanding is fighting. If he is fighting for his life, he shouldn't be commanding anyhow.

-Squad system cannot be changed, due to the way the engine works (we call this Hard-codded.

Engineer981 wrote: B) Why can't I talk to the people on VOIP who happen to not to be in my squad? Is there any way you can add 2 channels, one for just the squad, and one for the team as a whole? They have that in Red Orchestra where they have a voice thing for people just in the same vehicle.

-VOIP is hard codded

Engineer981 wrote: C) Apply everyone to drive the supply truck, not just engineers and squad leaders. I bet I could hop in one right now and quickly figure out how to drive it.

-This system attempts to ensure that only squads or engineers (with the intent to build from the truck) can drive the CO truck, meaning lone wolves cannot run off with it and his sniper rifle, leaving 7 people stranded at main base.

Engineer981 wrote: D) Reduce the waiting time for vehicles to respawn. I can see like some where between 5 and 10 minutes. But 15 or 20 minutes seems to be overkill.

-Larger distances requires more time. It'd be even MORE frustrating to have destroyed a tank with a rocket launcher, get a little way, then have it spawn again and work you over. This way, victories are more successful and losses are harsher, much like a combat experience.

...mongol...

GrayeKnight · Post by **GrayeKnight** » 2008-02-21 01:40

Engineer981 wrote:But, I have a problem with the current way the command structure is set it, its both inefficient and unrealistic. So me and my clan leader were playing the other day. For some reason we couldn't even get into the same "squad" and when we jumped into the same tank, well we died. We couldn't even create our own. It got extremely frustrating for the both of us and apparently of another clan member when he played

Like a few other people have said, sounds like either the squad bug or possibly too many squads?

A) Scrap the BF2 command system. Either set it up in squads and fire teams as in real life, or just have a list of classes like this:

Thats hardcoded, and can't be changed by PR DEV's.

This way people will be assigned a class and they'll be in that the whole game. Another thing that frustrated us is the fact we had to reapply every time we died. In my opinion, this doesn't make anything realistic. When you join the military, you get assigned a MOS and you stick with it, the commander doesn't change you.

Although this is a realism mod, absolute realism cannot be obtained. Gameplay sometimes takes priority over realism. The kit request system works well for both aspects.

B) Why can't I talk to the people on VOIP who happen to not to be in my squad? Is there any way you can add 2 channels, one for just the squad, and one for the team as a whole? They have that in Red Orchestra where they have a voice thing for people just in the same vehicle.

Hardcoded. (you'll get to love that word... you hear it a lot relating to BF2

)

C) Apply everyone to drive the supply truck, not just engineers and squad leaders. I bet I could hop in one right now and quickly figure out how to drive it.

Another case of gameplay over realism. Theres already enough trucks, they should be driven by people (engys or SL's) who want to use it for a tactical purpose, to support the team. Not just one person riding it up, getting it blown and wasting a valuable asset. Not to say that it doesn't still happen, but its an attempt to reduce it.

D) Reduce the waiting time for vehicles to respawn. I can see like some where between 5 and 10 minutes. But 15 or 20 minutes seems to be overkill.

Vehicles (heavy ones) are on long respawns to encourage teamwork with them and to discourage the solo tanker, etc.

I am new to this game and do not fully understand it yet. But I wanted to point out some of my suggestions that I feel would make it a better game.

Well, welcome to the mod! I hope this post helped. Feel free to ask anytime if you have a question. (but search first!)

GrayeKnight

EDIT: Mongol beat me to it, so i guess you can compare our views on it, lol

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-02-21 01:59

Welcome.

To answer everything: No.

-Warning issued for: useless/unhelpful post content.

Engineer981 · Post by **Engineer981** » 2008-02-21 02:26

thanks to the people who explained it to me civil.

But I'm going to have to agree to disagree about the trucks, but I see where your coming from.

Again, thanks

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-02-21 04:27

Limiting the trucks is meant to keep all the nubbies from simply driving off in one. It's not about being capable of driving one, it's about who should be given the ability to use them. Officers for transport/building/giving squads supplies, engineers for squads that are split up like build squads and such.

Post by **Jaymz** » 2008-02-21 07:40

Engineer981 wrote:But I'm going to have to agree to disagree about the trucks

It's because they're logistic vehicles, used for construction and resupply.

gazzthompson · Post by **gazzthompson** » 2008-02-21 13:19

[R-DEV]Jaymz wrote:It's because they're logistic vehicles, used for construction and resupply.

and not transport like they are used afiar bit, and if EVERY one could drive em they would be one in ever ditch on the map after some guy who didnt spawn on his squads RP for some reason decides to use it as a taxi

Post by **sofad** » 2008-02-21 13:39

reading some posts here, i would suggest that the moderators punish arrogant and/or elitetist posts/members more!

Post by **Masaq** » 2008-02-21 15:32

[R-DEV]sofad wrote:reading some posts here, i would suggest that the moderators punish arrogant and/or elitetist posts/members more!

We're on it!

After all, to misquote Mongol: Today's 'noob' is tomorrow's elitist prat insulting tomorrow's 'noob' for the same mistakes made yesterday.

Warmagi · Post by **Warmagi** » 2008-02-21 16:05

About issueing (spelling?) kit for the whole round...

first it would create a lot of dificulties. Some ppl are kicked from squads, other are disconnected. That way squads wouldnt be so efective as is now when they can choose what kind of kits should be in a squad.

Secondly every time you die you're not resurecting as a same person. You simply become/taking control of a new soldier that have been transported to this battlefield.

zeidmaan · Post by **zeidmaan** » 2008-02-21 17:11

To clarify few things that people have mentioned since you are new.
Squad Bug - Its a BF2 bug that happens rarely. There are 2 types of it. One restricts a team to 3 squads only. When those 3 are created the team cant create any more squads. Only way to fix it is for admins to restart the server.
Other type happens not to a whole team but but to players individually. When it happens you cant join a squad. It will look like you are in a squad but you are actually not. Only way to fix it is to restart the game completely.

- Hardcoded - as VOIP for example means that some aspect of the game just cant be changed by the developers of PR. Developers for example cant make more channels for VOIP, they cant make vehicles with more than 8 seats, they cant make servers with more than 64 players etc.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-02-21 17:18

[R-MOD]Masaq wrote:We're on it!

After all, to misquote Mongol: Today's 'noob' is tomorrow's elitist prat insulting tomorrow's 'noob' for the same mistakes made yesterday.

I'm one of them

My first round in .302 involved me getting saw PWN't on some map where the USMC base was at the bottom of some stupid hill (map is long gone). Also some urban extraction map or VIP Escort or whatever that involved me getting pwn't as well.

Come to think of it, did we even have text chat in the game? I recall it saying whenever a SL would die, but not sure about being able to type chat messages at all.

Wasn't around for .4, but came back in .5 and spent my early few rounds TKing people because I couldn't ID the damn uniforms on Op. Pheonix.

fludblud · Post by **fludblud** » 2008-02-21 17:23

Engineer981 wrote:I am new to this game and do not fully understand it yet. But I wanted to point out some of my suggestions that I feel would make it a better game.

i dont get it, you are new to this game, you already admit to not understanding it or not knowing the reasons behind many of the changes and features included yet you feel that these suggestions would make it better? dont you think that is somewhat slightly illogical?

i played for six months and through two versions before i felt i was experienced enough to begin putting my input into the forums, even then much of the stuff i talk about has probably been discussed millions of times before.

keep playing, much of the limitations and spawn times may seem annoying at most but there is always a reason behind them (except the command trucks, i dont know why they are restricted either...)