Question on the future of helos in PR

[Corporal Cody]

You guys are probably getting really tired of all the questions and suggestions for the upcoming versions..... but I just gotta ask. Do you fellas have any plans for the inclusion of attack helicopters in an urban enviroment (such as an Apache at Al Basrah, etc. etc.). Along with this, any plans for a map with both attack helis and jets? I don't think there is a map that has both yet (64 Kashan has the jets, 32 has the helis, not sure about that Chinese map though).

[Technoelite]

Barsa used to have apache gun ships but i remebr they where taken out becaseu of a bug or that it was unfair to the insurgents i cant remeber.
And Quailing uses AIR ,chooper ,attack chopper. To answer the chineses question.

[Alpha(r)]

You guys are probably getting really tired of all the questions and suggestions for the upcoming versions..... but I just gotta ask. Do you fellas have any plans for the inclusion of attack helicopters in an urban enviroment (such as an Apache at Al Basrah, etc. etc.). Along with this, any plans for a map with both attack helis and jets? I don't think there is a map that has both yet (64 Kashan has the jets, 32 has the helis, not sure about that Chinese map though).

Battle for Qinling 64 map(the Chineese one you probably mean) has both attack choppers and jets

EDIT:sry I've just read Technoelite's post carefully

[Expendable Grunt]

Hey Alpha, Cheomesh here

Anyways, the Apache got taken out of Basrah because it turned into a slaughterfest. During the beta, when it was still AAS, it was impossible for the Insurgents to win (The AA was still borked). When it went over to Insurgency Mode, the Apache still trolled the skys, making it impossible to defend the caches.

As for whether or not we'll ever see a chopper on an urban map again, I ask you to see "Gulf of Oman".

[Alpha(r)]

Hey Alpha, Cheomesh here

OMG that is you little rascal
I haven't really thought that you and...um you is the same guy lol

[Rhino]

Barsa used to have apache gun ships but i remebr they where taken out becaseu of a bug or that it was unfair to the insurgents i cant remeber.

it was taken out cos it was simpley too easy to fly around the map and have the gunner look in all the obvious locations for the cache, then be able to shoot it with the MG from long distances away..

and yes, Qinling 64p has both Jets, Attack choppers and Transport choppers...

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

In theory you could do something similar with a merlin but caches are hard to spot from the air because of the shading used, they blend in.
Theres only a couple caches that can be spotted in this way usually.

I think the apache could be added in without unbalancing the map but they allready have tons of vehicles and theres only 32 players to crew them all and search the ground which Im certain would still be the most important way to find caches

UK win anyway dont they. Does anyone play this map regularly, who usually wins? We played this in an organised game recently and insurgents were a terror which is not how I remember 0.6

[gazzthompson]

Does anyone play this map regularly, who usually wins? We played this in an organised game recently and insurgents were a terror which is not how I remember 0.6

good map but its total noob city tbh and it always crashes the server so its not so good to play

[Rhino]

In theory you could do something similar with a merlin but caches are hard to spot from the air because of the shading used, they blend in.

nooo, main reason why the merlin is not effective is because it dose not have a gunner that can look around below the chopper, on the ground, zoom in on targets and use its chain gun to destroy anything it sees. even if the merlin dose spot it, all he can do is inform his team and maybe drop off some troops to take it out, but it cant destroy it...

[zangoo]

go onto basrah traning map, now get into the apache with someone ask them to go to village, now shoot at the village with the 30mm gun, it will take out the village in less then 1 min so it wouldnt be very hard to just destroy the area where you think the cache is.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

Well maybe I can pop onto the basrah training map sometime with you but I have played with apache (+ gunner) on insurgency basra before and it wasnt overpowering like it seems it obviously would be.

If we count village and the island as definate air spottable caches. There is a possible on refinery and palace as well but I think its limited in its effect beyond that.
The biggest change would be its overwhelming firepower influencing the game if it stayed up long enough. SA-7 might be a good enough counter to it as well as 50 cal technicals.

The gunners zoom is shakey and more importantly, in black and white. So the heli would need be really close, far closer then it should be in order to stay safe.




Im not arguing it should be loaded on the map just with the idea that it obviously could never be on the map because its great at finding caches.

I think the civilian deaths from splash damage, etc is the real reason it couldnt be put in maybe





Old vid of me trying to find caches on basra 0.7 with the merlin, server was half empty and filling up after a crash hence my death at the end from a short range sa7 launch

jj - Battlefield 2 video

even if the merlin dose spot it, all he can do is inform his team and maybe drop off some troops to take it out, but it cant destroy it

Ive cruised round with an engineer before. In terms of finding caches, I found it similar.
The apache can open up buildings more easily if they are destructible but apart from village (because it seems to always have a certain cache) its not a massive factor as they are usually empty anyway - a wild goose chase

[Mora]

The apache could be added but only if the caches are really good hidden under the ground or something.

[BloodBane611]

Hey Sabre, the fact that it rapes when trying to find caches really is the reason. Most of the caches are exposed, either in yards or on roofs, and that means that finding one in an attack helo hovering right inside the fog zone is ridiculously easy, and that destroying them with missiles/cannon fire is also ridiculously easy. Assuming the caches could be moved under cover it might be reasonable, but don't expect it.

Anyhow, there are a lot of urban maps in the works (I can think of like 3 in the community mods forum), so I'm thinking there is a good chance of an apache showing up in a city fight sometime soon.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

I dont agree the apache is great at spotting caches from the air, its not easy. Watch the vid above and tell me how many cache you can see with me 20 feet off the ground (too dangerous in a full server), the apache does not have any more ability to spot then a merlin with passenger

Maybe its laser targeted missiles would be too much, you'd have to find the cache first but it would alter things as far as destroying it

It wasnt a great factor with tv missiles though

[Waaah_Wah]

nooo, main reason why the merlin is not effective is because it dose not have a gunner that can look around below the chopper, on the ground, zoom in on targets and use its chain gun to destroy anything it sees. even if the merlin dose spot it, all he can do is inform his team and maybe drop off some troops to take it out, but it cant destroy it...

Dont tell me that you have never seen a Merlin with lots of C4 dropping engineers in it Was great fun in 0.6 as you could pretty much carpet bomb the city with SLAM's and C4

[BloodBane611]

Why would you fly 20 feet off the ground when you can be at 600, and clearly see with little ability to be fired on? Even with two or three SA-7 kits it would still be very hard to take down, and would allow the brits to destroy a huge number of insurgent vehicles and spawn points from the air.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

If you could show a screenshot of 600alt with a clear view on a cache then obviously Im wrong

The gunners zoom is no good for spotting for caches but using binoculars from the merlin or a parachute would be a more then fair comparison


Anyway I hope they fix the basra map bug so we can settle this in battle!


I was piloting the a mec attack chopper on kashan the other day. We were shot down at 597 alt a couple of times. I dont think the view distance on basra is quite so great, 400 is probably the fog viewdistance limit

[VipersGhost]

I think the choppers work within the BF2 engine MUCH better than the planes do. I would really like to see more attack chopper maps.

[[=TC=]nuetron]

Barsa used to have apache gun ships but i remebr they where taken out becaseu of a bug or that it was unfair to the insurgents i cant remeber.
And Quailing uses AIR ,chooper ,attack chopper. To answer the chineses question.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!! ??:
the HIND is a Gunship(attack heli/transport)
the Apache is an Attack Helicopter
Z-10 is an Attack helicopterAttack Helicopter ??:
the Havok is an attack helicopterAttack Helicopter ??:

[Ecko]

nooo, main reason why the merlin is not effective is because it dose not have a gunner that can look around below the chopper, on the ground, zoom in on targets and use its chain gun to destroy anything it sees. even if the merlin dose spot it, all he can do is inform his team and maybe drop off some troops to take it out, but it cant destroy it...

I always wondered, would it be possible to god mode the caches vs a set entity, that being an apache . If so problem solved. Of course AA would also need a fix before implementing it. Plus with civilians around using the apache would be difficult.