Do maps make sense?

[Expendable Grunt]

I normally have fun on every mission in PR, even though I've played the maps a ton of times. But do the missions make sense? I admire all the work that went into them, but sometimes I just don't "get it".

# 7 Gates -- Makes sense; A British armoured infantry column is on it's way to attack a PLA stronghold thing.

# Al Basrah -- I don't know how weapon cache hunting goes IRL so I can't comment.

# Al Kufrah Oilfield -- Makes some sense; British armour column is on it's way to attack an MEC stronghold of some sort. Not sure why you need to hold the facilities, however. Might have something to do with guarding the flanks.

# Assault on Mestia -- Not sure why an arms dealing group has the British Army after it, but it might be a NATO task, as the arms group is apparently mult-national.

# Bi Ming -- Never played. Got part way in during the beta, and never went back, and nobody seems to run it since.

# Daqing Oilfields -- It's a vanilla map. Has some fun factor, but why are there two air fields so close to each other?

# EJOD Desert -- Makes sense; USMC needs to route an MEC stronghold.

# Fools Road -- See Mestia.

# Gulf of Oman -- Makes sense as is. Most sensible map.

# Hills of Hamgyong -- USMC wouldn't attack up hill like that would they?

# Jabal Al-Burj -- Why are we invading a beach to take out a bomb factory? EDIT: Also, the dam is...weird.

# Kashan Desert -- Two conveniently located bases for MEC and USMC deploy forces to take over some bunkers while trying to kill each other. Bunkers seem to pose little, if any, real value.

# Operation Ghost Train -- Fighting over a rail bridge makes little sense when you can air drop supplies to the region. Is the PLA really that rail reliant? Assuming they are, the map does make some sense, though why they didn't bomb it is beyond me.

# Qwai River -- Why, exactly, is a fishing village or a government office important? Or hell, even a mine in that case? I can see the village, and maybe the office as they over-watch the river, but a mine? Or hell, a processing facility for that matter (though that could be a southern flank guard).

# Road to Kyongan'Ni -- Why are we fighting to hold a village?

# Sunset City -- I'll post on this, later.

# The Battle for Qinling -- Two conveniently located air bases battle over...a coal mine. How two bases managed to build themselves so close to each other is beyond British or Chinese high command.

# Zatar Wetlands -- Don't really know what to say here.


Anyways yeah perhaps someone can better explain why the flags are as they are, as I'm not a military tactician.

[BloodBane611]

Yeah, many of the maps are quite contrived. I like the approach many of the community mods have taken, which is generally making maps based upon, or at least inspired by, real places and conflicts (Sangin deserves mention here as well). But the storyline of PR has never been meant to make a whole lot of sense, as Rhino said in another thread, it would simply tie the DEVs down. As far as flag orders and such, well, you're on your own. It's a fairly rigid system, which makes little sense most of the time, but it is important to recognize that it helps gameplay a lot. Focuses players towards certain points, instead of BF2 style where every infantryman is out lonewolfing and capping a flag all by his lonesome.

Tangentially, I don't think the militia's unofficial backstory makes any sense. To me their name implies enough reason for them to exist, the whole weapons thing is a bit dramatic and unbelievable. But eh, I like fight for and against them, so who cares.

[agentscar]

Well,Weapons Cache hunting takes place in most theatres of combat with Insurgents/Militia/terrorists.Like in O.I.F. (Current Iraq Conflict) and in Afghan. searches for enemy personel and weapons caches is always taking place...

And yea,Bi Ming,no offense,but kinda a bad map,to be PR's only "night" map...

Zatar,Sunset make sense.Sunset city,has USMC and PLA fighting for a strategic hold on an "important" Chinese city...?

[Razick]

Bit long but here goes:
my responses are in Red

I normally have fun on every mission in PR, even though I've played the maps a ton of times. But do the missions make sense? I admire all the work that went into them, but sometimes I just don't "get it".

# 7 Gates -- Makes sense; A British armoured infantry column is on it's way to attack a PLA stronghold thing.

Basically its just an assault on a known operating base and they are taking care of it before its a problem. Its a tactic called "Forced Interdiction"

# Al Basrah -- I don't know how weapon cache hunting goes IRL so I can't comment.

Well from personal experience we were mostly just conducting raids for organization leaders, suspected insurgents or terrorists and trying to get as much intel for the higher ups to use. Weapons dumps where mostly just a cherry on top of the shit sundae as your never gonna get rid of them all, its the guys buying them that you want. Missions vary from unit to unit but I was scouts reconnaissance so that was some of our tasks but its pretty general all round.

# Al Kufrah Oilfield -- Makes some sense; British armour column is on it's way to attack an MEC stronghold of some sort. Not sure why you need to hold the facilities, however. Might have something to do with guarding the flanks.

Well they are fighting over the Oilfield. Its an absolutely vital objective and I dont see why this isnt obvious to a lot of people. You control the oil you have the power. Google the uses/applications of crude oil and youll see why we are so dependent.

# Assault on Mestia -- Not sure why an arms dealing group has the British Army after it, but it might be a NATO task, as the arms group is apparently mult-national.

Well you can think of the Militia as a Eastern Bloc black market organization and are the type of people that flooded weapons into places like Bosnia and Kosovo. NATO would be their as a peacekeeper force and would definitely target these organizations. I may be wrong but this is the last stronghold for the Militia on the three map series (Is it 3 or 4?)

# Bi Ming -- Never played. Got part way in during the beta, and never went back, and nobody seems to run it since.

I think this is just a night time raid by the Brits against the communications station and to establish dominance in the area, i dont know there is very little detail about the surrounding area.

# Daqing Oilfields -- It's a vanilla map. Has some fun factor, but why are there two air fields so close to each other?

Once again its the oil they are after and its a vital resource to China so in turn its top priority for the US to control it.

# EJOD Desert -- Makes sense; USMC needs to route an MEC stronghold.

This could be a fight for a strategic route ex. all the parallel roads. And seeing that the city is in the middle of the desert and has NO body of water near it (which is ridiculous in the open desert) then its probably VERY important

# Fools Road -- See Mestia.

Part two of Op Dragonfly. The control of these roads means you control the area.

# Gulf of Oman -- Makes sense as is. Most sensible map.

Pretty obvious its an amphibious assault and the main objective SHOULD be the capture of the airfield and I believe there is not enough emphasis on it.

# Hills of Hamgyong -- USMC wouldn't attack up hill like that would they?

Not without 4 days of continous bombing and air strikes then following with an entire Armor division with full air support. Omaha beach will never happen again as long as the US stays Democratic. I always thought this was map was whack

# Jabal Al-Burj -- Why are we invading a beach to take out a bomb factory?

I think the mission is to disable the bomb factory and root out the MEC that are backing terrorist attacks on Isreal. I personally think this should be an IDF map if it ever gets added. Dont know about the carrier though?

# Kashan Desert -- Two conveniently located bases for MEC and USMC deploy forces to take over some bunkers while trying to kill each other. Bunkers seem to pose little, if any, real value.

The bunker can be pictured as an old base that both sides can use to their liking. Again I like to think that the fight here is for establishing dominance and the strategy of "Forced Interdiction"

# Operation Ghost Train -- Fighting over a rail bridge makes little sense when you can air drop supplies to the region. Is the PLA really that rail reliant? Assuming they are, the map does make some sense, though why they didn't bomb it is beyond me.

Airdrops are only feasible when you have air superiority and are only used when there are no other options otherwise your aircraft would be shot down before they reach their destination. Besides air dropping isnt a very efficient way to move supplies and men and the other thing is the thick jungle. Thats why rail trains are perfect, you can conceal it and it can move massive amount of supplies and men though the jungle with relative ease. And for the bombing question I would say that it was probably heavily defended so sending a small team to destroy or strike the bridge would have been suicide, so you then take it by force.

# Qwai River -- Why, exactly, is a fishing village or a government office important? Or hell, even a mine in that case? I can see the village, and maybe the office as they over-watch the river, but a mine? Or hell, a processing facility for that matter (though that could be a southern flank guard).

Yeah I agree that most of the CPs arent very important but a lot of the focus should be on the bridges but either way they are tiny and wouldnt work very well when you need a route to use for supply trasport. This is just a map to have fun in, not very strategic or mission based at all

# Road to Kyongan'Ni -- Why are we fighting to hold a village?

Well its the bridge we are supposed to be fighting over but it is retarded. Another map just to have fun in

# Sunset City -- I'll post on this, later.

This probably the first thrust into the chinese mainland after the vanilla "Dragon Valley" map. Taking of the city and capture of the bridge in the flooded city would be the most strategic assets.

# The Battle for Qinling -- Two conveniently located air bases battle over...a coal mine. How two bases managed to build themselves so close to each other is beyond British or Chinese high command.

Coal is essential for the making of steel and several other things. It makes absolute sense to take some of the already small amount of natural resources that China has.

# Zatar Wetlands -- Don't really know what to say here.

The control of the Natural gas resources and maybe the airfield. I think this is probably one of the initial battles in this "war". Acquisition of natural gas and a presence in the air is a good enough reason to attack a marsh region

Well that is my logic to what the maps would mean if they were to be interpreted realistically. Some of these maps may have not have as much significance as I give them but I like to think they are.

[TexLax]

Bit long but here goes:
my responses are in Red



Well that is my logic to what the maps would mean if they were to be interpreted realistically. Some of these maps may have not have as much significance as I give them but I like to think they are.

oh, wow, you said everything i was going to say.

[npsxbox]

The main map I have a problem with is Al-Burj.

Why is there a dam build right next to the ocean? And if we assume its a huge lake, how did they get an aircraft carrier in there? Dams are built way inland to create reservoirs for water resources, not to stop the water from the river to get to the ocean....when its right next to it.

Also, when that dam is finished, the reservoir created will flood the town and the MEC outpost. What were the engineer's smoking?

I think they should just remodel the map and substitute the map with a huge bridge. I think that would make a lot more sense.

[Expendable Grunt]

Ah yes, totally forgot to mention the dam. Was on a server today and it came up (TG).

[Rhino]

I normally have fun on every mission in PR, even though I've played the maps a ton of times. But do the missions make sense? I admire all the work that went into them, but sometimes I just don't "get it".

try reading the briefings might help?

# 7 Gates -- Makes sense; A British armoured infantry column is on it's way to attack a PLA stronghold thing.

British mech infantry are assaulting a dug in PLA division.

# Al Basrah -- I don't know how weapon cache hunting goes IRL so I can't comment.

I dunno how realistic this is aswell but UK_F says its pretty realistic.

# Al Kufrah Oilfield -- Makes some sense; British armour column is on it's way to attack an MEC stronghold of some sort. Not sure why you need to hold the facilities, however. Might have something to do with guarding the flanks.

the objective is for both sides to try and capture the oil fields, for the oil...

# Assault on Mestia -- Not sure why an arms dealing group has the British Army after it, but it might be a NATO task, as the arms group is apparently mult-national.

basically NATO tasked force to destroy the militia in the area

# Bi Ming -- Never played. Got part way in during the beta, and never went back, and nobody seems to run it since.

dose get played from time to time, just not often cos players dont like the fact that there situational awareness goes down the drain in it, like it dose in r/l at night...

The map itself is striking the PLA at night to try and catch them off guard.

# Daqing Oilfields -- It's a vanilla map. Has some fun factor, but why are there two air fields so close to each other?

the "2 air bases" situation is the fact is theres no other more realistic way to have both teams with jets on the map... the map itself is fighting over the oil fields, for the oil again.

# EJOD Desert -- Makes sense; USMC needs to route an MEC stronghold.

MEC are dug in EJOD and USMC are there to flush them out more or less.

# Fools Road -- See Mestia.

more or less, part of a 3 part map series.

# Gulf of Oman -- Makes sense as is. Most sensible map.

USMC are doing an amphibious assault on MEC forces in Oman.

# Hills of Hamgyong -- USMC wouldn't attack up hill like that would they?

Well some US forces did actually do this on the hill of hamgyong during the Korean war afew years back, the guy who made it had his granddad fight in it or something. There is baiscally no other option for them at the time than to do a frontal assault on the hill. Problem is the map just sucks in PR

# Jabal Al-Burj -- Why are we invading a beach to take out a bomb factory? EDIT: Also, the dam is...weird.

The damn makes no scene what so ever yes, very unrealistic location for it and ye, wouldn't work. Dunno where you got the bomb factory idea from thou aint read the latest brief if its been changed. Basically USMC doing a amphibious assault on MEC forces.

# Kashan Desert -- Two conveniently located bases for MEC and USMC deploy forces to take over some bunkers while trying to kill each other. Bunkers seem to pose little, if any, real value.

See Darqin for 2 air bases bit.. USMC and MEC are having a head on clash in the kashan desert.

# Operation Ghost Train -- Fighting over a rail bridge makes little sense when you can air drop supplies to the region. Is the PLA really that rail reliant? Assuming they are, the map does make some sense, though why they didn't bomb it is beyond me.

Rail road = supply line, cut out there supplies and they are screwed. Brits want to hold the bridge to keep it for them selfs so they can supply the front lines, as the front lines move more into china. Bombing a bridge like that aint allways possible aswell.

# Qwai River -- Why, exactly, is a fishing village or a government office important? Or hell, even a mine in that case? I can see the village, and maybe the office as they over-watch the river, but a mine? Or hell, a processing facility for that matter (though that could be a southern flank guard).

USMC want to take the river of qwai so they can then push more into china in a later assault?

# Road to Kyongan'Ni -- Why are we fighting to hold a village?

Like the name suggests, you are fighting over a road, not a village.

# Sunset City -- I'll post on this, later.

USMC are trying to capture a chinese city to push more into china.

# The Battle for Qinling -- Two conveniently located air bases battle over...a coal mine. How two bases managed to build themselves so close to each other is beyond British or Chinese high command.

no not really... the "coal mine" is not the entier objective as some of you seem to think, if you read the brief ive got it here:

With constant skirmishing across the Chinese front lines, British forces decide to strike a deadly blow into the Qinling mountain region.

in other words, british forces are striking around the front lines to try and push behind the enemy, aswell as capturing valuable assets like the coal mine at the same time. The air bases has already been exsplained there is no better way to do it than that, unless you have a better idea of how to get both sides with jets on the map on a map like this?

# Zatar Wetlands -- Don't really know what to say here.

Amphibious assault aginst MEC forces in zatar to gain a beach head in the area.





Your main problem i think you are having is that you seem to think that you are always fighing over some small objective inside the map, where most maps are in fact about capturing the area of the map itself, getting supply routs and moving the front line more up towards the enemy.

Hope that exsplains abit what the point in each map is.

[CAS_117]

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f113-c ... ocket.html

Honestly all maps need a team of military advisors placing the objectives and arranging things like bunkers and weapon emplacements.

[Rhino]

CAS_117;623069']https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f113-c ... ocket.html

Honestly all maps need a team of military advisors placing the objectives and arranging things like bunkers and weapon emplacements.

we have mapper meetings which involve afew mil advisers when talking over map concepts then in the end of the day, maps are there to bring the game together into a way that is fun, not to be ultra realistic thou that can be a good bi product of a map, but not always the main aim.

[Razick]

CAS_117;623069']https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f113-c ... ocket.html

Honestly all maps need a team of military advisors placing the objectives and arranging things like bunkers and weapon emplacements.

That would be great but I see a flaw in their as well. Maps may become biased or one sided because you have to worry about balancing the whole time and besides I dont think veterans would make very good mappers (you cant make maps big enough ) On the other hand you could have a very realistic approach to how the maps are laid out and they could feel more mission based, which I really want to see.

They only way I see it working is if you add those ideas of yours CAS_117 about the random objectives along with some other tweaks. Another thing I would love to have is more of those maps that are in sequence that way you could have the same type of terrain but different features that way you still have variety but keep some familiarity as well. I dont know you guys do what you want with it really, but sometimes I feel I am the minority when I say "the realer the better".

[LtSoucy]

# Hills of Hamgyong -- USMC wouldn't attack up hill like that would they?

No, not now at least. Before any attack like that now they would J-DAM and bomb the place then flank and not charge MG positions.

# Qwai River -- Why, exactly, is a fishing village or a government office important? Or hell, even a mine in that case? I can see the village, and maybe the office as they over-watch the river, but a mine? Or hell, a processing facility for that matter (though that could be a southern flank guard).

Those 2 flags provide boats, And boats can cross the river and help do flanking missions.

# Road to Kyongan'Ni -- Why are we fighting to hold a village?

If you play it more you will see why. The village controls the river and the surronding area.(Ask NATO 2 and CATA 2)

[RCMoonPie]

The main map I have a problem with is Al-Burj.

Why is there a dam build right next to the ocean? And if we assume its a huge lake, how did they get an aircraft carrier in there? Dams are built way inland to create reservoirs for water resources, not to stop the water from the river to get to the ocean....when its right next to it.

Also, when that dam is finished, the reservoir created will flood the town and the MEC outpost. What were the engineer's smoking?

I think they should just remodel the map and substitute the map with a huge bridge. I think that would make a lot more sense.

Damns and reservoirs are often created for supplying a community, irrigating land, furnishing power, etc.
More often for power of course.

And yes....sometimes damns are built whole communities are relocated while small towns are deliberately flooded.

Where I live in Tennessee...there are a couple of lakes that were formed in this matter when the TVA was structured.
Dale Hollow Lake is supposed to have some underwater structures, such as a schoolhouse, a church, some other remnants of an 'underwater city'.

I would also look at how many citys communities etc will be flooded once the Three Gorges Damn is completed in 2009 in China.

Its not so impractical in the game.

[Rhino]

Damns and reservoirs are often created for supplying a community, irrigating land, furnishing power, etc.
More often for power of course.

And yes....sometimes damns are built whole communities are relocated while small towns are deliberately flooded.

Where I live in Tennessee...there are a couple of lakes that were formed in this matter when the TVA was structured.
Dale Hollow Lake is supposed to have some underwater structures, such as a schoolhouse, a church, some other remnants of an 'underwater city'.

I would also look at how many citys communities etc will be flooded once the Three Gorges Damn is completed in 2009 in China.

Its not so impractical in the game.

yes, but no dams are built in areas which can not be flooded, the water would just go around the mountains down into both the beach landing spots, it wouldn't capture any water is the main point hence why it wouldnt work, hence why it makes no sence

[RCMoonPie]

I do agree with that due to the way the pass is strctured on this map.

I was mainly commenting on the fact that having a damn that close to an ocean would be plausible in order to have that volume of rushing water pushing turbines.