Tank/APC/50 Cal Bullet Drop

[[uBp]Irish]

all you helo pilots need to learn how to play your vehicle.

I have no idea how many times i've dropped blackhawks on kashan or hips that just think they can fly their way into bunker with a get-out-of-jail free card.

You fly in, on a direct linear path, slowly descending. I can lead you so well that it's not even funny how pathetic it is that you cry on these forums that tank cannons are overpowered, when your skill isnt even at the point to match.

here's a thought.


1. get some H-AT to destory me.
2. Get a squadleader/spec ops to laze my tank, thus leading to my ultimate destruction at the hands of the cobra/havok or frogfoot/a-10
3. Maybe drop off troops BEHIND COVER, instead of in an open area where i have direct line of sight as you fly in.


Really comes down to the fact you're crying about how effective tanks are, when you're not even using your transport or even attack helo to the fullest extent...

1.Fly low and fast, or high and know where your drop zone is.
2.Make sure you know where the hell your dropzone is and if there are any enemy contacts around. No pilot worth is weight in gold in real life(cause isnt that what PR is trying to emulate) would fly into a hostile landing zone where there are enemy tanks that can destory him...same reason why you dont drop people off at a flag and then proceed to get AT'd to death. cry about that why dont you....
3. Find an alternate landing zone that provides you some visual cover away from the enemy force. might take your troops longer to get to the battlefield than i direct insertion, but it's better than you getting dropped as soon as you land, and all those troops dieing with you.
4. God Forbid, maybe you should actually bob and weave on your flight approach than making it so easy to lead you straight to your landing zone. Add in some turns or zigzags, and even as miniscule as they might be, will throw off a good tank gunner.


Holy Cow, people actually have to use skill in a game, what a concept. Learn to play your vehicle before you cry about someone else's vehicle that they have spent time playing in. You learn the limitations of your vehicle and adapt the situation to overcome those weaknesses.

A gunner on a tank has a maximum degree elevation of his turret to about 35 or 45 degress.. maybe 50even. What do you do? Fly above us and land somewhere else. Kashan has a multitude of hills, and usually most tanks either roam, or sit in the mountain range running east/west in the middle. Use this to your advantage, if you spot the tank, gain altitude and fly over us, where our cannon is at the weakest point. if we're on one side of the mountain, fly on the other side of the mountain and drop the troops behind us since it takes time to traverse the cannon. You fly fast, so use that to your advantage, and bob and weave in an out to screw up our aim... seriously.. common sense.

Stop getting on the bandwagon about how crazy tanks are when you dont even have the skill to compete.


/rant off.

[snotmaster0]

Irish, I see your point, and I agree. But what about the other weapons and vehicles(50 cals, etc)? Also, it seems that what your talking about implies a huge amount of skill on the choppers part, and very little on the tankers part (my understanding is that currently it's point, shoot, kaboom with the tank cannon). We're suggesting that we make tank shooting more than just point and shoot, and add in a skill factor. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[[uBp]Irish]

chopper flying is a skill no disagreement there.
tank gunning is point and shoot, but gotta add in the "leading the target" value and how much distance ahead of the target you have to be. the round travels fast, but with the limited ammo that a tank has, you gotta be dead on.


PR is full of metaphors. ex.. the fact that medics have a bag instead of a syringe or scissors or a defib that can bring you back to life. I'm trying to think of other "metaphors" that you see in game, but i'm blanking (got hit in the head with a soccer ball..could be it)

[nedlands1]

But it completely avoids a HUGE point, that you only lase at that MOMENT.

Pretty sure if a laser can track at a target 100's of metres away while the laser is traveling near or over the speed of sound, in the case of a jet, the same can be said for the range finding laser on a MBT when faced with a relatively slow flying helicopter.

[Mosquill]

Pretty sure if a laser can track at a target 100's of metres away while the laser is traveling near or over the speed of sound, in the case of a jet, the same can be said for the range finding laser on a MBT when faced with a relatively slow flying helicopter.

IRL, you can't use ballistic computer's adjustments AND lead an air target at the same time. Ballistics computer won't lead the target for you, but if you will, then the range finder's laser won't be on the aircraft anymore, so it won't be able to determine range. And ballistics can't be calculated without range. So you can't hit a moving air target, unless of course you'll calculate the bullet drop your self.

But that's afaik, I'm no tank expert.

[Jay]

I recall reading somewhere (I think it was one of the DEVS that said it) that tanks, IRL, can calculate the speed of a moving object and adjust the turret, so that all the gunner has to do is fire. I also remember in that same thread, someone posted a video of a tank shooting down a flying unmanned drone (it was a training exercise) that was a fair distance away.

[BloodBane611]

Lase systems cannot determine lead on a multi variable changing object, it's just not possible.

Where's that clip of Dr. Cox going "Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong" when you need it?

That's EXACTLY what the ballistics computers and laser rangefinders in modern MBTs are designed to do. They are meant to keep the barrel of a 50-65 ton tank pointed at another tank from several miles away, even while moving over uneven ground. A tank that sees a helicopter within its field of fire could easily and successfully engage it. Now, this is where view distances come in. IRL, helicopters rely on the fact that they are in the air VERY far away, or very high, in order to keep from being engaged, and in order to engage the enemy tank with their ATGWs first.

Tanks are designed to have very good accuracy over long ranges against moving targets while they themselves are on the move. The problem is not the accuracy of the tanks cannon, it is the tactics of helicopter pilots in PR, which is in turn mostly defined by the lack of view distance, which cannot be reasonably changed.

something moving around on 3 axis' will avoid a shell even if it was calculated correctly when fired.

Not if you lead it correctly....If a helicopter is flying along one vector, and doesn't change that vector or its altitude, the ballistics computer in a real tank can easily calculate the lead and barrel elevation required. Same deal in PR. Now, if the helo is constantly changing altitude, speed, and direction, that would make it much harder, though not impossible, to hit. Same deal in PR. I see no problems.

[Mora]

The idea that tank shells wont have a bullet drop is because they have irl a automatic range finder and calculate the distance. They only have to point at the target.

At least this is what i think it has..

[HughJass]

i dont know, i mean 50 cal gunners are very open to any incoming fire these days and people are just not "afraid" of them. If you introduced this new deviation for 50 cals then you would have to upgrade the cover for the 50 gunners. maybe just using crow systems?

[$kelet0r]

Yes, I know, but if you read the posts, you'll see why giving the tank perfect accuracy to simulate this, is hugely flawed on many many levels.

If your going to give the tank perfect accuracy, you at least have to limit how high the turret goes. Only fair if you ask me.

We really do need that Dr. Cox clip ??: There's just so much wrong I don't know where to begin ...

[BloodBane611]

Dangit, I had pretty pictures and everything. Well, they're going up anyhow!


Out beyond a thousand meters this might matter, but a Sabot round has a very flat trajectory, and none of the view distances in PR are long enough to give any actual effect from this.



As long as the helicopter remains on its course, it will be hit. That's just physics.


*EDIT*

Also, the elevation/depression values are already correct for tanks.