SAM-R/SDM-R to replace M14?

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-03-08 18:51

Being that this mod is set somewhere in the near future and some units are already fielding them, will the M14 DMR be replaced by the SDM-R for the US Army faction? To my knowledge, Army units don't even use the M14 as a marksman rifle - what do they use instead?

Also, if it works for the Army, I'd like to see the same idea put into effect with the SAM-R, the Marine Corps' match-grade M16. The M14 as it is now is probably slightly less accurate than the scoped M16, has a large recoil, and generates quite a bit of smoke. Replacing it with a highly accurate M16 (or one with more damage per bullet; needs testing) could give it some advantage over a scoped US rifleman, which is currently the best marksman in PR.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-03-08 20:34

IIRC US Army marksman will be getting the M22 Mod 0 or something like that.

M16 DMR basically. It was in .302.

RCMoonPie · Post by **RCMoonPie** » 2008-03-08 21:35

I would take a "pepsi-challenge" ANY day to compare the M14 to the M16 and any of its variants.

M14 all the way....hands down.

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-03-08 22:39

Not in-game. I just played a Kyongan'Ni match, and I tried hitting targets with both the M14 and M16. I got a few kills with the normal, unlimited scoped rifleman, while I couldn't hit a damn thing with the Marksman kit. This might be because of the deviation issue, but I even tried shooting without waiting for the deviation to 'settle' (which is the temporary solution, until 0.8 ), and still made zero kills.

Even before the 0.7 deviation bug, I could never get satisfactory results with the M14 - maybe as a result of bad marksmanship, or as a result of bad in-game ballistics. Whatever the cause, the solution is one of the new match-grade M16s.

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2008-03-09 00:11

FYI - the Marksman/Sniper kits are FUBAR regarding the deviation, no matter what you do with it if I recall correctly, but it will be fixed.

RCMoonPie · Post by **RCMoonPie** » 2008-03-09 00:37

I didnt clarify....but I was speaking in reality.

In game....the M14 doesnt represent its real-life counterpart at all!
You are better off using a slingshot.

ReadMenace · Post by **ReadMenace** » 2008-03-09 01:29

Expendable Grunt wrote:IIRC US Army marksman will be getting the M22 Mod 0 or something like that.

M16 DMR basically. It was in .302.

Mk12 Mod0.

-REad

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-03-09 01:46

ReadMenace wrote:Mk12 Mod0.

-REad

Yeah that's the one.

zangoo · Post by **zangoo** » 2008-03-09 01:50

the mk12 in the files sounds like a airsoft gun, or it is using subsonic ammo. is the mk12 used as a dm for the army?

Post by **Mosquill** » 2008-03-09 02:10

What is the point of using subsonic ammo with a scoped rifle? That would be really stupid, imo.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-03-09 04:19

Mosquill wrote:What is the point of using subsonic ammo with a scoped rifle? That would be really stupid, imo.

See the VSS Vintorez - the most coolest weapon in the world IMO (closely followed by the De Lisle). By using subsonic ammo you don't create a sonic boom. This reduces the sound significantly. In conjunction with this, the sound, created by the propellant gases escaping at high speed, is reduced with a suppressor. Have such little sound allows you to fire a rifle inside a building without disorientating yourself. If your weapon is silent enough you can blend in with ambient noise (like traffic). Having such a slow velocity (<340.29 m/s) reduces the penetrative effects of a round. To counteract this, heavier bullets (SP-5 used with the VSS Vintorez: 16.8 g vs M855 used with the M16A4: 4g) are used which have greater momentum than light rounds with a similar speed.

Problem with this subsonic ammo is that the round takes a lot longer to reach the target. This makes environmental factors, like wind, have greater effect. It also means you need to lead more. The trajectory of a subsonic bullet is a lot more curvy then a fast bullet like the 5.56x45mm NATO. This means that there is more drop to account for too.

Post by **Mosquill** » 2008-03-09 04:54

Then I guess it's not that stupid at all. I thought that subsonic bullets have a very short effective range, so a scope would be useless.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-03-09 05:05

Mosquill wrote:Then I guess it's not that stupid at all. I thought that subsonic bullets have a very short effective range, so a scope would be useless.

They do, IIRC the VSS's is 400m or so. You don't have a very high power scope though. In the case of the VSS you use a PSO-1 scope (4x) which is used on the SVD. The difference is that the bullet drop compensator is calibrated for the subsonic ammo IIRC.

gclark03 · Post by **gclark03** » 2008-03-09 05:46

None of this really serves to answer the question. First of all, being a modified M16, these DMRs logically fire high-velocity and (I hope to God) long-range ordnance. Second of all, there's no point in internally silencing it, as stealth isn't an issue for the average marksman. What would be an issue in PR is getting players to choose a marksman kit that is better than a rubber band in terms of firepower and accuracy.

In short, what's the current incentive to choose the M14 limited kit over the scoped M16 unlimited kit?

Post by **Jaymz** » 2008-03-09 07:13

1. US Army do use the M14 as a DMR

2. All Sniper/DM Rifles have been fixed in the soon to be released patch.

There's your incentive to choose the M14...

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-03-09 07:41

gclark03 wrote:Second of all, there's no point in internally silencing it, as stealth isn't an issue for the average marksman.

IRL there is, do you know how loud guns are inside? That's the main reason they have these suppressors in the first place.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2008-03-09 11:12

SAM-R/SDMR have been discussed before, so I am going to lock this thread. Only USSOCOM were using the Mk-12, but the Marines are beginning to field it too as of late last year. To replace the SAM-R at the squad level? Maybe.

The Mk-12 does not use subsonic ammunition as standard, but a match or near-match round with a heavier projectile known as the Mk262.

Both the M14 and M16A4/M4-based SDMRs are used in the US Army. In the Marines, the M14 National Match is the basis for their in-house produced DMR, which is now mostly seen in use by MP Special Response Teams and FAST Company designated marksmen/marksman-observers. The Mk-11 seems to be the 7.62mm DMR of choice for the regular infantry battalions/scout-snipers, now.