A Radical Suggestion - remove live map markers

Psyko · Post by **Psyko** » 2008-03-06 10:28

This is an amasing idea!

People see PR as a deity right now, they wont easily sway from their love of it.
Lots of people will embrase this new idea!
I for one do.

Doedel · Post by **Doedel** » 2008-03-07 01:21

I love the idea. I understand a lot of people may be afraid of such "limiting gameplay" but to be honest, what attracts people to this game is realism and that shouldn't be rejected. America's Army does fine with much, much less situational awareness.

I think the biggest impact will be it will lead to "slower" battles. Currently, I can check my minimap, see where every one of my team members is, see where they're dying, and thus know where the enemy is, mostly, and can then head there quite quickly. Without having such easily-available access to this, I'd be forced to slow down -- which is exactly how it's done in America's Army. You advance slowly, methodically, with your squad, because you have no idea whether or not some enemy's going to pop out infront of you, or if it'll be a friendly. I especially like AA's "report" function which lets you call out where you are over radio so people know going in that you're there. The commander could fill out this function (though it'd be cool if there was such a function in PR, to call out your grid location)

Artnez[US] · Post by **Artnez[US]** » 2008-03-08 02:59

There are plenty of benefits to this idea...

Actually the main reason I even wanted this idea implemented was using terrain to navigate.

No one ever says "once we get up to the main road we should turn left and run for about 50 meters". Everyone uses their precise location on the minimap so the situation awareness simply isn't there.

Wicca · Post by **Wicca** » 2008-03-09 20:58

When i make a squad i make sure its run properly, if people want to play do it properly, this idead makes it easier for me to run squads.

I for once like this idea i dont want anyone to say that it wont work in PUB games cause we havent tried it yet....

PR in itself is very complex, but still its one of the best mods of all time, Lots of people are playing it.

PR has gone through alot of changes which has been seen by the Community to be weird or impossible. but they were able to play it and have fun at the same time.

I have been on pub servers in squads which have nationalities from 4 diffrent countries with a few transalators. Still i had 2 Fireteams and it worked like a charm...

So please dont say this idea, this glourius wonderful idea which will just lead PR into epicness, doesnt work...

I think thats all i want to say...

I really really ! really want to see this in PR so please if you modders read this thread than please implement it into the game..

The Great Danton · Post by **The Great Danton** » 2008-03-10 01:19

I completely agree. I say it's worth a shot testing out.

terenz · Post by **terenz** » 2008-03-10 17:31

Its funny, almost every reply on this re-suggestion holds: It would suck on Pubs, because of too incompetent players.

Theres a really simple solution to this. As of now, we have servers that have no rules and servers that has many rules to keep the gameplay as PR should have, "forcing" SMs,SLs and COs to do their best. So why not make a "Hardcore-mode" of some sort, implementing most of these re-suggestions. I would personally love to see some of these suggestions come live on the PR we know. So, servers with high support and ambitions of the PR mod, could take the next step and make it hardcore, if they chose to.

Edit: Small suggestion to make it easier to navigate with the compass, as for knowing what grid you are in. Let you know from your compass what grid you are in, to enforce the importance of knowing what grid you are in, to inform friendly squads.

Post by **Masaq** » 2008-03-10 20:33

As a couple of others have said - this is something I put forward (more or less, in the general idea of it anyways) a month or so ago.

If it's okay with Artnez I'll merge the threads as they're very similar? Search for " Map Update Delay "

As for Fuzzhead's comment - anyone want to give it a try? I know so little about tinkering with BF2 so as to not have a clue where to start

burghUK · Post by **burghUK** » 2008-03-10 20:58

i thinkthis is a great idea that will encourage more realism , more teamwork , more use of voip and will definetely mean only the best can be squad leaders.

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-03-10 21:11

I got to say Im glad its not possible. Reducing communication and information available to the players isnt going to improve gameplay or even realism imo since it will always be a game with bigger limiting factors to its realism that you cant fix like ping and playing a battle in 2 hours instead of 2 weeks

All the info given on the map should be available to a soldier, its a question of the time it would take to get it and in the games we operate in a concentrated time scale.

Maybe you should request they increase the time delay to the map being displayed?

Wicca · Post by **Wicca** » 2008-03-10 22:54

Sabre_tooth_tigger wrote:I got to say Im glad its not possible. Reducing communication and information available to the players isnt going to improve gameplay or even realism imo since it will always be a game with bigger limiting factors to its realism that you cant fix like ping and playing a battle in 2 hours instead of 2 weeks

All the info given on the map should be available to a soldier, its a question of the time it would take to get it and in the games we operate in a concentrated time scale.

Maybe you should request they increase the time delay to the map being displayed?

The point is not to make info unavailable to players so that they cant play, the point is to make players more reliant on squadleaders, teamplay and voip. The SM doesnt tell the SL what to do, its the opposite. The point is to come as close to the reality as possible without ruining the teamplay. And this is a good stepp in that direction.

Me and my clanmates have been talking alot about this and we all agree that we wish that it would be this way. But the same answer always apear.
What about the public servers, well. If you use this idea in this thread, than it will force players to cooperate. Its like a Wall that leads them down a path, right now the path in this mod is abit wide, but not like vanilla. But if we get it narrower it will be better.

point of fact is that players like teamplay, and teamplay is to be in a Hierachy system in this game, therefor make the SL and CM more powerfull, in the sense of information that is.

Im telling you guys this is the way to go!

Listen To ARTNEZ!!! I back him up!

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-03-10 23:35

The point is to come as close to the reality as possible without ruining the teamplay

I would place the priorities the other way round. Realism serves the purposes of competitive & involving teamplay, in that it offers the greatest challenge

Strict hierarchy Im not massively into, I would like every player to be able to offer suggestions to the sl and take initiatives to support general orders.

Restricting info on a need to know basis seems unnecessary, we're not spec ops.

If you want realism, check this out :
New game is simply the vest | The Sun |HomePage|News

A Vest to simulate bullet impacts :O

Artnez[US] · Post by **Artnez[US]** » 2008-03-10 23:55

Please don't merge.

Delayed map markers is very different than removing live markers completely.

The idea is that the only way you will know where you are is by using the surrounding area and understanding which direction you were coming from.

Psyko · Post by **Psyko** » 2008-03-11 15:20

it seems, the less info given to soldiers, the more realistic this becomes, with the exception of such devices for squad leaders as GPS devices.

And even at that, GPS need some sort of becon or transponder to transmit information. GPS should only see other GPSs, TRansponders and Beacons that should be placed manuely.

Is it realistic for every soldier to have the ability to see where the rest of the men are?

Wicca · Post by **Wicca** » 2008-03-11 20:51

Sabre_tooth_tigger wrote:I would place the priorities the other way round. Realism serves the purposes of competitive & involving teamplay, in that it offers the greatest challenge

Strict hierarchy Im not massively into, I would like every player to be able to offer suggestions to the sl and take initiatives to support general orders.

Restricting info on a need to know basis seems unnecessary, we're not spec ops.

If you want realism, check this out :
New game is simply the vest | The Sun |HomePage|News

A Vest to simulate bullet impacts :O

I think your not understanding, the point i made was that if you have realism that just ruins teamplay then dont have it in the game. But the changes that will bring the game closer to realism, and also improve its teamplay thats what i meant about realism that doesnt ruin teamplay.

And i think restrickting info to the grunt in a squad, will improve realism and teamplay. Because, if you are SL than you are in charge of doing a good job. And that responsibility lies on you. And also Commander has alot of responsibility, but instead of every player bashing him and telling him what to do, they cant do that anymore cause they cant see whats happening. And so they must follow the orders, in order to survive. More teamplay, less bashing in game. I have seen to many commanders being called Fornicators (nice word) and people who are making love (Nice way of putting it). And so i want to see respect for the responsibility that commanders are taking on.

Besides isnt teamplay all about getting into the right situation? For example, my favorite situation is having a fireteam suppressing and hearing the sound of that SAW mMM! And then have the other fire team flanking. Thats so nice.

And so i want it to be easy to make teamplay, and i belive most players in PR enjoy Teamplay, thats why they came here and thats what we should give em!

(PS; reason i said stuff in the "NICE" way was because swearing in discussins is not nice)

terenz · Post by **terenz** » 2008-03-12 18:00

well, all in all i think its a nice suggestion because it works great with the game now, the cons that it has is, that it might be too hardcore. So i think its up to the modders to decide if thats the way they want to go.

Fatal-M · Post by **Fatal-M** » 2008-03-12 18:08

Agree ! at first i was against that ! when i kept reading , the point got to me ! alot more real ! realizing the atmosphere by ur self is needed . and of course that will help alot , more communication ! like u said we need a commander on both sides to make this perfectly work !

well lets leave that for the devs !

and u have a gd way to swing ur idea's !!
and they are much needed for the game

cheers

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2008-03-12 22:01

This message is, "RICO APPROVED"!!!!!!!!!

R

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-03-12 22:59

I'm going to be honest, I think this is a terrible idea. I agree, the live map markers are utter ****. But without any kind of communications network, everyone will be reduced to spamming team chat, which is a fairly crappy method of communication even when you're not trying to coordinate 30 people using only single lines of text.

Artnez[US] · Post by **Artnez[US]** » 2008-03-13 06:58

To add to the original idea...

What about allowing squad leaders to report their position every 5 minutes?

It would create a marker on the map. So squad leader brings up commo rose, picks "Report In" and a marker is created on the map as to where that squad leader is.

This way you can know the approximate location of other squads, but it all depends on the other squads ability to report in. This would be realistic as well.