A Radical Suggestion - remove live map markers

Deadmonkiefart · Post by **Deadmonkiefart** » 2008-03-13 07:03

'Artnez[US wrote:;628071']To add to the original idea...

What about allowing squad leaders to report their position every 5 minutes?

It would create a marker on the map. So squad leader brings up commo rose, picks "Report In" and a marker is created on the map as to where that squad leader is.

This way you can know the approximate location of other squads, but it all depends on the other squads ability to report in. This would be realistic as well.

I like this idea. The map could be updated every 2 minutes or so.

Post by **Rudd** » 2008-03-13 07:23

BloodBane611 wrote:I'm going to be honest, I think this is a terrible idea. I agree, the live map markers are utter ****. But without any kind of communications network, everyone will be reduced to spamming team chat, which is a fairly crappy method of communication even when you're not trying to coordinate 30 people using only single lines of text.

I have to agree with the above, its just not practical having everything go through the commander like you say. IRL there is a central communication centre, but BF2 doesn't have that kind of flexibility built in to its VOIP.

It was a really really well made suggestion however.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2008-03-13 09:19

i like the idea of squad leaders having the ability to place map icons...

we see it is possible with the new landmine marker which puts a skull on the map that all teammates can see

kilroy0097 · Post by **kilroy0097** » 2008-03-13 12:45

As long as you can play at 1280x764 or higher and as long as all settings can be set on medium or higher then I believe this could work. Anything lower and you just can't distinguish friend from foe at anything past 60m. Also as long as I can see my 3D map and see that move marker or attack marker or whatever then I will be fine.

Take that 3D map away and the normal map markers and I would be completely lost.

I do wish there were Platoon Leaders in addition to Squad Leaders and Company Commanders. The ability to be able to put Squad 1 and 2 under a single Platoon Leader would be beyond words.

Wicca · Post by **Wicca** » 2008-03-13 13:37

About voip in BF2, is not possible to tweak with it? Like we are tweaking with the BF engine. Cant we tweak the Voip server aswell?

Anyway, i mostly use TS, and when i play on 10th mountains, its easy to communicate to other squadleaders. Because the 10th mountains are squadleaders aswell.

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2008-03-13 14:32

kilroy0097 wrote:As long as you can play at 1280x764 or higher and as long as all settings can be set on medium or higher then I believe this could work. Anything lower and you just can't distinguish friend from foe at anything past 60m. Also as long as I can see my 3D map and see that move marker or attack marker or whatever then I will be fine.

Take that 3D map away and the normal map markers and I would be completely lost.

I do wish there were Platoon Leaders in addition to Squad Leaders and Company Commanders. The ability to be able to put Squad 1 and 2 under a single Platoon Leader would be beyond words.

Ahm, the commander IS the platoon leader even though he is not referred to a platoon leader. 32 players per side equates to a platoon sized element, not a company sized element. A Rifle Company would be more along the lines of 140 to 180 men, not 32 men. According to BF2, a team can have up to 9 squads. But that is also incorrect because there are more than 6 men in a real world Rifle squad. It's more like 9 to 11 men in a Rifle squad. In game we have 9 possible "Fire Teams", with each having a fire team leader. Not squads as BF2 refers to. That's a BF2 issue though.

space · Post by **space** » 2008-03-13 15:41

Great idea to just have SL and COM see the whole team. If SM can only see the squad then they will stick to the SL like glue.

example

SL " Squad 3 coming in from our NW " - If a squad is not together then they will have problems.

I think markers should stay as they are, as without VOIP it would make life too hard, espcially for new players.

Wicca · Post by **Wicca** » 2008-03-13 22:55

spacemanc wrote:Great idea to just have SL and COM see the whole team. If SM can only see the squad then they will stick to the SL like glue.

example

SL " Squad 3 coming in from our NW " - If a squad is not together then they will have problems.

I think markers should stay as they are, as without VOIP it would make life too hard, espcially for new players.

Well since we all just want some changes like this or another way but pointing in the direction of this thread, why dont we just have a graduall change. Like when it hits 1.0 then this thread is "online" sort of speak.

But 0.8 and 0.9 can be graduall changes to it.

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-03-14 00:56

[R-DEV]fuzzhead wrote:i like the idea of squad leaders having the ability to place map icons...

we see it is possible with the new landmine marker which puts a skull on the map that all teammates can see

That sounds great

Why do people think having the entire squad stick to the SL position is a good thing. You are asking to be wiped out in one go.

If thats what no map will lead to then its an argument against the idea imo

Artnez[US] · Post by **Artnez[US]** » 2008-03-14 07:53

Sabre_tooth_tigger wrote:Why do people think having the entire squad stick to the SL position is a good thing.

Hmm.. it's tactical?

No one is talking about having an entire squad be within 1 meter of each other here.

Ablack77 · Post by **Ablack77** » 2008-03-14 09:48

Top suggestion Artnez whether it be a re-suggestion or not.
I believe this would really add to gameplay.....a lot.
Now we just need one of those smarty pants coders to find a work-around.

With regards to the "it won't be good in pub games" argument the same could be said for commander assets,
if "team A" has a commander and therefore has commander assets "team B" will be steamrolled if it doesn't have a commander and assets which is the case at the moment.
So someone 'usually' steps up and takes on the commander role for the good of the team.

I think you've got to be careful (well the dev's do) about saying
"well we can't put that in game, it'll never work in pub play, the pubs will never figure it out"

if you said that, rifles might still have cross-hairs,
maybe you could still hop out of vehicles at full speed without getting hurt,
tanks might still have on one person to operate them, etc etc.

My point is we adapt to the game, we learn, we get used to it.

What's that saying again "some people get handed lemons and they make lemonade"

Anyway, I think it's a great idea. (whoever originally thought of it)

Psyko · Post by **Psyko** » 2008-03-14 11:28

kilroy0097 wrote:As long as you can play at 1280x764 or higher and as long as all settings can be set on medium or higher then I believe this could work. Anything lower and you just can't distinguish friend from foe at anything past 60m. Also as long as I can see my 3D map and see that move marker or attack marker or whatever then I will be fine.

Take that 3D map away and the normal map markers and I would be completely lost.

I do wish there were Platoon Leaders in addition to Squad Leaders and Company Commanders. The ability to be able to put Squad 1 and 2 under a single Platoon Leader would be beyond words.

Check out some actual army footage, does it look like they are checking their maps every 20 seconds? I WANT SMs TO START VISUALLY CHECKING STUFF OFF!
This is the difference between nerds and soldiers, you are all so LASY!!!

Sabre_tooth_tigger wrote:That sounds great

Why do people think having the entire squad stick to the SL position is a good thing. You are asking to be wiped out in one go.

If thats what no map will lead to then its an argument against the idea imo

your just fishing for excuses, you know fully well, that the squad leader can modify the squad's formation verbally in a simple manner. this is how we do sections/squads/fireteams in real life. stop thinking so unnaturally, i believe if this system is implimented, it will make this Mod SO REAL, that people will be frightened into focusing on what they should be doing, instead of base raping, stealing, and team killing. (the crimes of BF2)

Wicca · Post by **Wicca** » 2008-03-14 20:44

So what the problem is here is that, when a new change is discussed about PR in the PR forums. Then some people are "afraid" of change and says it is a bad idead, and it will never work. Then you have those who push the Mod forward with their ideas, and says that this is the right way to go.

So who should we listen to? The ones who make new ideas? or those who makes the mod stay in one location.
Or maybe we should listen to both to have a healthy movement forward.

.blend · Post by **.blend** » 2008-03-14 21:17

Lovely idea! The first weeks would propably be hilarious, as everyone would get lost, do a lot of teamkills, and of course all the noobs would curse the game.Hilarious!
But after a while itll propably get pretty immersive.
The only problem i c is the communication: VOIP sux and is hardcoded. The only way around this would be making Mumble the official communication device as it is highly customizeable etc.. Just c My sugestion for more info.

ghost_dog · Post by **ghost_dog** » 2008-03-15 01:20

Artnez[US]; I totally agree !!!!!!!! with all that you say. We went from BF2 and slowed it down, as that is real, however, it would be even more so if we were to slow it down further.
There will still be intense battles; remember confusion is all around in battles and in war; it is how you get through it that becomes the challenge. The build up which leads up to a fight, SL getting his plan across,kits distribution, traveling, chatting to each other, jokes and serious tactics orders given, Moments of boredom with sudden sheer TERROR is what war is, not a arcade game BF2.

We all moved over from BF2 to PR cause we wanted a thinking mans war game, WE GOT IT!!!!! So starting thinking!!!

ghost_dog · Post by **ghost_dog** » 2008-03-15 01:24

Also I never use the markers 3 map anyways takes away the real feel, can you image soldiers on the battlefield in afganistan saying, hey Mic see that maker in the hills over to the east, Mic says where, where that HUGE YELLOW arrow marker is pointing. LOL. get rid of it all and lets use compass terrain and each other for situation awareness! Communicate! if ya have a problem communicating, LEARN TO COMMUNICATE !

Psyko · Post by **Psyko** » 2008-03-15 02:13

ghost_dog wrote:Also I never use the markers 3 map anyways takes away the real feel, can you image soldiers on the battlefield in afganistan saying, hey Mic see that maker in the hills over to the east, Mic says where, where that HUGE YELLOW arrow marker is pointing. LOL. get rid of it all and lets use compass terrain and each other for situation awareness! Communicate! if ya have a problem communicating, LEARN TO COMMUNICATE !

"Hey Mic..."
"Yea mate?"
"You got a big green ball hanging over your head!"
"Aye! thats because i iz de \337 Squadz leaderz"
"...."
"pwned."

OverwatchX · Post by **OverwatchX** » 2008-03-15 02:46

I agree with the main post 100%

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-03-15 04:29

If a reasonable method of communication between squads could be made, I would be 100% for the main post. But for pub play this has shown to be impossible, and pub play is where the great majority of PR is played.

I think SLs setting map symbols is a very good idea though, but the fact is that even with placeable symbols and team chat, there is no reasonable way for 32 people to coordinate. A commander already has to coordinate air, armor, and infantry movement on many maps, add to that relaying squad locations whenever a squad needs to ID someone and he'll become a glorified air traffic controller in no time.

The fact that it takes time to bring the map up has really eliminated the use of the map for distinguishing friend from foe quickly. It takes time to bring up the map, locate where you are and locate who that is you're looking at.

I use the map all the time if I'm unsure, in lieu of a real communications system I think it's a decent route.

Wicca · Post by **Wicca** » 2008-03-15 07:43

Let the devs try out this idea.

Some games (Like BF 2 Vanilla) doesnt require alot from the player, except having a decent computer.

But this mod, PR it requires alot from the player, and i think from seeing what i have seen so far ingame, that this can be done. People just have to adapt, like they do everytime a new update is made.

So please for the love of god! Stop saying it cant be done on PUB, we dont know yet. We can only guess, and there are statements and agruments for both sides here.

Why dont we have a "community" vote? I think that would be fair?