Insurgents and their pickup kits

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-03-15 03:41

So I was lulzing it up with [DM] on BattleArena and we discussed this.

Insurgents have two kits: Insurgents and civilians.

All other kits (IED kits, MG's, RPG's etc) are pickups. In addition, there are a bunch of "common" pick up kits that are "variants on a theme". For instance, the insurgent kit is like it is now, but a pick up version trades the AK for the PPSh, or FAL, or some other weapon.

Figured you all would be interested, one way or the other.

charliegrs · Post by **charliegrs** » 2008-03-15 03:45

i dont think i fully understand this. so your saying, just bring the base kits for insurgents down to 2 [the insurgent and the civilian kit} right? and then have randomized pick up kits? i think it would be pretty cool. i would love to have an insurgent with a g3 again like back in the good ol days.

DavidP · Post by **DavidP** » 2008-03-15 04:03

If i could i'd make all the insurgents just have 3 spawn kits to choose from.

Insurgent with just a knife, AK, and Ammo.

Civi with just rocks, field dress, and binocs.

Cell leader with just a knife, AK, Binocs, and field dress.

Everything else is pickup.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-03-15 04:05

I think this would be a good idea, I hope you don't hate me for this, but I'm going to expand on it a little.

First, as above, the insurgent team may only spawn as insurgent or civilian. Same model, the only difference would be whether they have a weapon or not on spawn. Civilians would no longer be killed if they pickup a kit with a weapon.

Now, kits (a nice variety, as EG gave above) would be scattered about the map, in buildings, compounds, and other logical places for weapons to be stored. Kit spawning should be linked to something, as it is now (RPs, Caches), but basically no matter where you go in the map you should be able to find a kit with a weapon to pick up, as long as it is somewhere your team could logically have stashed it before. This would simulate the concealment that insurgents generally use much better than a horde of armed guys running around basrah, which is no concealment at all.

Now, the only major problem I see is dropping your weapon kit every time you use up a mag because your lazy or you want to spam. So these kits should still be limited, only 30 or so (I don't know what the number is now, but I think about 20) ingame at any given time, and maybe a 2 or 3 minute delay on their respawn.

Jester_Prince · Post by **Jester_Prince** » 2008-03-15 05:14

What about this...

Everyone starts un-armed.

Everyone starts as a civie, afterall all an insurgent is is an angry civvie with a gun. they then have to pick up a kit from a rallypoint. However make it so that the kits are assigned randomly, so no one knows what kit they will end up with. If you end up with an RPG then you end up having to go after armour, if you end up with a sniper rifle you fill that role, or if your simply handed an AK or a WW2 relic then your unlucky enough to be a grunt.

This would serve a few puropses, it would stop certain people hogging certain kits. It would also reduce RPG spamming because if you get handed an RPG you dont know if your the only one with an RPG around for miles and you will want to use it wisley.

It will also add alot more civilians into the maps, which means brits have to check their fire alot more often and arrest more civilians before they can pick up weapons.

Just expanding on your ideas.

Edit: It would also mean that its alot more chaotic (and more realistic), just because a guys an ace with a sniper rifle dosnt mean hes going to get it. Insurgents arnt meant to be total marksmen, infact half of them wont have fired a weapon at a living target until they have been engaged in that combat. And likeley they will be using what ever weapon their cell leader handed to them on the way out or what could be scrounged up.

Post by **Rudd** » 2008-03-15 05:23

I like this suggestion alot, great dynamic to the game

But the pickup kits are spread around the map, this will result in more ppl running off searching caches for a kit to use- instead of doing something useful.

So i would suggest a kind of request system being put in to the insurgent team. Just like the regular armies, but uses a location unique to the insurgents- either a cache or other static.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-03-15 05:23

No, the insurgency is already prepared before the invaders come to town. Civi's should be unchanged to be honest.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-03-15 05:24

DavidP and Rudd actually touched on the original idea, either having it "requestable" from a cache (taking it from the pile), or giving it as a spawn option.

Jester_Prince · Post by **Jester_Prince** » 2008-03-15 05:29

yes thats true, they should be prepared, but in real honesty, im firm in my belife that there should be alot more civvies running around albashra then there is. and if a civ has brits ontop of him hed be wise not to pick up a weapon or he will just die as soon as he picks the kit up. However if the civies pick their moments to arm themselves when no one is around then the brits wont know that they were unarmed because they never saw them arm up so its kinda exactly the same as them being pre-prepared. And its not always the case if an insurgent force is caught off gaurd theres likley to be a mad dash for caches to get weapons am i right?

Ragni<RangersPL> · Post by **Ragni<RangersPL>** » 2008-03-15 11:19

Expendable Grunt wrote:Insurgents have two kits: Insurgents and civilians.

All other kits (IED kits, MG's, RPG's etc) are pickups. In addition, there are a bunch of "common" pick up kits that are "variants on a theme". For instance, the insurgent kit is like it is now, but a pick up version trades the AK for the PPSh, or FAL, or some other weapon.

How it will improve/change gameplay?

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-03-15 18:05

Changes combat dynamics. That much is obvious. Also makes the insurgents more irregular looking in terms of forces.

MikeDude · Post by **MikeDude** » 2008-03-16 10:55

Jester_Prince wrote:What about this...

Everyone starts un-armed.

Everyone starts as a civie, afterall all an insurgent is is an angry civvie with a gun. they then have to pick up a kit from a rallypoint. However make it so that the kits are assigned randomly, so no one knows what kit they will end up with. If you end up with an RPG then you end up having to go after armour, if you end up with a sniper rifle you fill that role, or if your simply handed an AK or a WW2 relic then your unlucky enough to be a grunt.

This would serve a few puropses, it would stop certain people hogging certain kits. It would also reduce RPG spamming because if you get handed an RPG you dont know if your the only one with an RPG around for miles and you will want to use it wisley.

It will also add alot more civilians into the maps, which means brits have to check their fire alot more often and arrest more civilians before they can pick up weapons.

Just expanding on your ideas.

Edit: It would also mean that its alot more chaotic (and more realistic), just because a guys an ace with a sniper rifle dosnt mean hes going to get it. Insurgents arnt meant to be total marksmen, infact half of them wont have fired a weapon at a living target until they have been engaged in that combat. And likeley they will be using what ever weapon their cell leader handed to them on the way out or what could be scrounged up.

i think this is just the best idea. it would make it so mutch more fun.. and realistic.. expesialy the part that you need too check your fire before you shoot. and look for civies..

Warmagi · Post by **Warmagi** » 2008-03-16 11:19

I like the just civi idea a lot. But make a few Civis, like 4, 5 on start screen, just with different look. Maybe a picture of that person in place of weapon picture.

And on the spawn (if thats possible)request kit button so you can instantly arm yourself, but instead of choosing a kit it would be some kind of drawing, like lucky dip in lotto

You never know what you get, and you dont know if you will be good with that kit. After that a squad would need to improvise a tactic with the kits he has or find some additional kits spread around the map. There wouldnt be highly organized, specialized squads anymore like it is now.

OverwatchX · Post by **OverwatchX** » 2008-03-16 18:00

I too like the idea of starting armed but also seeing random weapon kits placed around town. I also like the option of a civilian picking up a weapon kit.

What about the civilian kit itself as a pickup? Blue shirt terrorists could grab rocks and bandages to pose as civilians in the short term. Would they then, if armed with rocks when killed, confer a penalty to the Brit who gunned them down?

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-03-16 21:27

Well Jonny, I'm sure if you where to pick a weapon off a pile you would have a purpose in it.

Figure it one way: Weapon cache has 6 weapons on it; 1 on top like now and 5 around it. These kits have primary weapons of all sorts, and are either emulations of the insurgent class (carries ammo) or the ambusher class (carries the small IEDs). More specialized kits like the SVD or Moison or RPG would remain as they are now.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-03-16 21:58

I agree EG.

I still think civis should be able to pick up weapons, but that's relatively minor, assuming insurgents and civis remain similarly garbed.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-03-16 23:51

Nah, you see the Civi's who picked up weapons are insurgents already. Civilians don't just "magically" appear at the scene of the battle. They're people who have no desire to fight (conscientious objectors), but will help the wounded / get pushed into looking for things.