dont understand point of left button on challenger driver

condac · Post by **condac** » 2008-03-19 14:48

I think some people driving tanks forget one important thing, Teamwork!
I love the idea of driver and gunner having to be in the same squad. Because you must talk to your gunner and driver with your voice.
But the idea of the gunner controlling the smoke is not right. The driver is more aware of when to popsmoke and how you should move the tank to get the most out of the smoke.

And please put smoke on x or c and zoom on right mouse.

Liquid_Cow · Post by **Liquid_Cow** » 2008-03-19 22:31

Its my opinion (and if you're ever in a tank with me this is how it'll be done) that the TC's job is to be looking all around, spotting targets and looking for threats while moving the tank... the gunner's job is to terminate targets when they are presented, this allows the gunner to zoom in tight and focus on insuring the target is dead before moving on to the next threat. When there is no targets, the gunner should be focused on a fire sector or zone where threats are most likely to pop up in. So, by my way of thinking, the TC should be more aware of the general situation, the gunner is usually too focused on the target, plus his "scope" won't traverse as quickly as the TC's, therefore the TC is more likely to see the threat, pop smoke, and move all in one motion. The gunner, however, may see a threat such as an HAT team moving into his field of view, so he should also be able to pop smoke in those situations. IRL both gunner and TC have controls over the smoke launchers, the driver has control over the engine smoke screen generator. (Of course, IRL the TC can also override the turret controls but we won't get into that).

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-03-19 22:37

I find it entertaining how many people said "I wouldn't trust my gunner/driver" in this thread. Given, pubbing sucks, but I have a hint for you: very few people are a cut above the rest.

I think driver should have smoke back, but as said above, both having their smoke would be best.

Post by **Katarn** » 2008-03-19 22:43

You guys do realize that smoke launchers are on the turret and fire in the direction the turret is facing. It would be quite lulz if the driver had control over the smoke launcher because he wouldn't know which direction the smoke would go!

Pariel · Post by **Pariel** » 2008-03-19 22:51

Unless the TC were, say, paying attention.

Although that would solve most of the above posts problems before they started, so I guess my point is moot.

But the smoke screen is freakin' awesome now. That's really all I have to say about it.

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2008-03-19 22:51

[R-DEV Katarn wrote: You guys do realize that smoke launchers are on the turret and fire in the direction the turret is facing. It would be quite lulz if the driver had control over the smoke launcher because he wouldn't know which direction the smoke would go!

The driver generates smoke by pumping diesel into the exhaust of the tank irl - completely seperate and unrelated to the smoke grenade launchers.
Probably the only tank that is not capable of this is the M1 with its jet engine - all Soviet/Russian and most Western tank boast this feature

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-03-20 02:03

$kelet0r wrote:Probably the only tank that is not capable of this is the M1 with its jet engine

What is dis?

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2008-03-20 02:11

^^Hax!

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-03-20 02:14

A fart...duh.

Anyhow, given that the drivers view is mounted on the turret, I'm thinking the driver might have a clue which way it's pointing. Now, if the driver is a retarded monkey it might have trouble, but I have yet to meet one on the internet. My main issue with it is the change in tactics it necessitates, but at least it's effective now, as opposed to being a cloud of flashing neon "Shoot Here" proportions.

ralfidude · Post by **ralfidude** » 2008-03-20 06:12

well this thread was not meant to talk about the smoke screen but while were on the subject, THE DRIVER SHOULD HAvE SMOKE LAUNCH CAPABILITY!!! WE all stress the fact that gunners take about 30 seconds to acknowledge targets, perhaps a mental disease inflicts a player upon becoming a gunner, not sure (iv started a global investigation into this matter as a threat to human health), but all jokes aside.... a gunner now has to actually switch to the smoke section, deploy smoke, and switch back to whatever ammunition, wait for the ammo to be switched and then hes ready.... umm..... no, that just wont work... I mean i play Albrashar with challenger effectively, and although the teamwork between me as driver and gunner is reliable we face those times where he dont know what the "frak" im talking about, and we get slammed by something nasty... The driver is always more aware of everything, and he has to deploy them smokes to save the tank and the lives inside. Gunner is too stupid...err... occupied to grasp that concept yet... By the time he figures out he had to pop smoke, il already spawn back in base. Hey i by no means am judginthe smoke effect though, its beast.

But the MAIN objective of this thread was to answer what the fuck does the left click do as driver?????? ITS STILL IRRITATING ME. Im starting to make jingles with the sound it makes, and i honestly believe its changing tune with each click. Im going insane, relieve me of my sickness devs, please!!! What does it do?

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-03-20 08:08

ralfidude wrote:DRIVER SHOULD HAvE SMOKE LAUNCH CAPABILITY!!! WE all stress the fact that gunners take about 30 seconds to acknowledge targets

Changing the fire control to the driver won't work unless you give him control of the turret since, as you pointed out yourself, the driver doesn't even acknowledge the target in time and hence is unlikely to be looking in the direction of it. If the turret isn't facing the right direction then the driver deployed screen will be pointless.

The ready time for the launchers should be drastically reduced I think. The defensive employment of the smoke screen would tend to be a spur of the moment thing. You can't wait 5 seconds or so to ready it. You'll be dead by then (assuming the gunner has some idea and is looking at the threat).

Did I mention that splitting the control of the launchers(gunner turns, driver fires) is either impossible or through some arcane method (that I don't know of) hard to do? Yeah that's right, HARDCODED (unless you want some dodge system whereby the launchers don't traverse). I guess you'll have to wait and see if there is a smoke generator for the driver in 0.8.

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2008-03-20 11:18

what was really wrong in the first place that warranted it being changed anyway?

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-03-20 11:40

'[uBp wrote:Irish;633553']what was really wrong in the first place that warranted it being changed anyway?

Could you please be more specific? There are several things people are claiming are "wrong" in this thread.

ralfidude · Post by **ralfidude** » 2008-03-20 16:48

Well, Irish, The thing about the smoke in tanks is that the way they were deployed before was a little bubble of smoke around the tank. The way it ACTUALLY happens is the way it is now. So a line of smoke deploys infront of the tank, giving him a much bigger shield to hide behind. The only faulty thing about this is that the gunner is not as reflexive about the use of the smoke as in real life. Therefore whats really happening is that out of the 10 times that the driver would deploy smoke, only once will the gunner actually deploy them. I dont know, i mean the devs had the right idea behidn the smoke but it just wont work the way its meant to. Tanks are gonna go down much faster now unfortunately, and people will be pissed, i know i sure am. I mean jesus, with the challenger, i was with a gunner who was reallllly good, he really responded fast, and when i told him to deploy smoke, that was like a brain fart came over him, i said 105, and he turned to 150. I could deal with the smoke being deployed wherever the gunner is looking at, i would just turn the tank into the smoke or something.

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2008-03-20 23:00

sorry, what i was referring too was "what was wrong with drivers getting the ability that warrented the change to gunners getting it". it wasnt all that game changing or anything for drivers to have another button to push. I'm just wondering what was so game changing that drivers had to give up the ability to gunners?

Liquid_Cow · Post by **Liquid_Cow** » 2008-03-21 01:01

ralfidude wrote: perhaps a mental disease inflicts a player upon becoming a gunner,

Anyone who chooses to be a gunner must be a 1337 point whore

By the time he figures out he had to pop smoke, il already spawn back in base.

LMAO!

Tef · Post by **Tef** » 2008-03-21 01:24

Liquid_Cow wrote:Anyone who chooses to be a gunner must be a 1337 point whore

No, I just suck at driving, I would have a tank rolled in no time flat....or get us in a position to get hameredby the enemy mbts.