Standing, crouching, and prone.

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-02-18 03:13

After the 1.2 patch, dolphin divers have been replaced with... divers. People who run towards you then dive to the ground shooting. I don't have experiance, but, I'm pretty positive you don't do this in real life!

yes it makes sense for accuracy to be up in prone... but your accuracy going from standing to prone (diving) should be horrendous, non-existant in my opinion, your gun should be tucked (like when you jump) when your making the transition.

id like to see prone only reached when your already in the crouched position (ie you cant go from standing to prone) or there be a 1 second (maybe longer/shorter it would require testing) delay while going from standing to prone.

just some of my 2 cents

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-02-18 10:25

Not exactly replaced... Diving has always been ALOT more evident than dolphin diving. In fact since release of BF2, I have only seen dolphin diving once or maybe twice, but I see regular diving in nearly every enemy encounter.

Anyway, I think its sort of realistic. You CAN of course dive in real life, it just wouldnt be very effective as it'll either hurt real bad or you'll probably break something (equipment or you, heh).

Personally I think it should stay the way it is, but there should be an added "downtime" on the weapon after hitting prone, a couple of seconds.

Also going from standing to prone should obviously be automatic in your case: The soldier goes Standing-Crouching-Prone in one smooth move. Forcing people while crouching (which is holding one button) to prone (pressing another button) while using 4 directional keys, 2 mouse buttons and the mouse itself is really complicated.

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-02-18 11:32

didn't read the whole forum thread before posting so i reposted here, (mod: sorry!! (>_<) )

"dunno if this has been mentioned before, but is it possible to include a camera sway for the prone process?

i mean, when a person go prone, depending on how fast they do so, they should have their view swayed as they go to prone. At the very least the vision should shake quite a bit and if he actually "hit the deck" hard his vision should blur for half a sec or so from the impact (a person lugging a SRAW hitting the deck? i'd imagine he'd throw up his lunch if he does it hard)

i'll leave the accuracy to real experience open to debate, but gameplay wise.. the prone system would be less of an inbalance to the troops if the person cannot maintain his view and sight during the process of going prone. How much of the effect should be added is something that playtesters gonna have to check i'd guess, but i'd reckon with a bit of a sway at least, it will make it harder for them to keep their sight on the target and thus if both combatant see each other, at close range then the person standing uprightl would be able to fire more accurately in a sense than the one going prone for at least a second or so. "

[BiM]Black7 · Post by **[BiM]Black7** » 2006-02-18 11:32

prone need to be fixed should be a 1 - 1.5 second delay befor you can shot and you should only beable to use iron sight in this position as there is no shoot from the hip here

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-02-18 13:08

'[BiM wrote:Black7']prone need to be fixed should be a 1 - 1.5 second delay befor you can shot and you should only beable to use iron sight in this position as there is no shoot from the hip here

I agree with Black7 completely.

There should be a delay, and there should be no way to fire the weapon unless looking down the sites.

When you arent in the sites, your weapon is in front of you, but you cannot fire it (could be shown as crossed over your arms)

Post by **BlakeJr** » 2006-02-18 13:52

Ofcourse you should be able to fire without looking through the sights. Just because you're going prone doesn't mean your triggerfinger is paralyzed until you aim properly.

Now, accuracy while firing without aiming is a whole other ballgame.

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-18 15:04

I agree with Black7 completely.

Me too... it would give time to kill diver or at least hide behind a corner...

i mean, when a person go prone, depending on how fast they do so, they should have their view swayed as they go to prone. At the very least the vision should shake quite a bit and if he actually "hit the deck" hard his vision should blur for half a sec or so from the impact

Yes, good idea! it would be nice to see in-game.

Gran · Post by **Gran** » 2006-02-18 17:34

Delay is needed. Dropping to the ground as fast as you can with frags, mags, canteens, and god knows what else would really slow you down. A 1-1.5sec delay sounds acceptable.

Skullening.Chris · Post by **Skullening.Chris** » 2006-02-18 19:32

Yes, I definitely agree! Glad to see other people sick of that diving **** too

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-02-18 19:56

I hope we can code that animation that plays while you are jumping into the transition between prone and standing, and prone and crouching, and vice versa.

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-18 20:09

Is it possible code in totally new anim?
Guy standing up from proneing with heavy backpack full of ammo shall not be able to shot when standing up and have anim with weapon.. well..."idleing"

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-02-18 21:40

ah yes im glad so many ideas and such sprang from this thread! im glad everyone has been noticing this too. animation + 1.1 second delay would be awsome.

and maybe if your crouched already the delay could be like .6 .

i just want ot see soldiers crouching before firing instead of diving then firing =)

Skullening.Chris · Post by **Skullening.Chris** » 2006-02-18 21:52

Hell yeah, I agree with everything here. The diving thing is probably my #1 annoyance about infantry combat in this game.

I think a really good example of how stance changes should be is how it works in Operation: Flashpoint. Soldiers actually use their arms to get themselves down and back up and there's a bit of delay while changing stances.

Noetheinner · Post by **Noetheinner** » 2006-02-18 23:08

Everyone has probably expirenced this at one time or another, You shoot a guy, think you hit him good cause he's going down. Only it was the rolling animation and the guy plugs you fulla holes. REANIMATE THAT ****!

DelTaGC · Post by **DelTaGC** » 2006-02-19 20:03

The prone has two goals in the game (and IRL) :

1. cover. That would looks like a dolphin diving to hide behind something fast and to have as little as possible of your body exposed to bullets. Usefull when a grenade is dropped at your feet. (speaking of grenades, what about à reworked area of explosion and the possibility to dive over it to try to protect your comrades ?). This emergency dolphin diving will let you break your teeth as you hit the ground.

2. The prone position. The way you get in prone position without losing your ironsight is : Up - kneed (both knee at the same time) - prone (one hand keeping the rifle in position and the second hand to help you prone).

So the best IMO would be : delay and blur for dolpin diving, and new slower animation for the standard, immobile proning.

CplMilhouse · Post by **CplMilhouse** » 2006-02-19 21:34

If you want an accurate measure of time, just code an animation correctly. On the battlefield (or in a blank-fire section attack

) you generally won't go from running to jumping straight onto your face. The way its generally done is to fall to your knees and from there let your body fall forward onto your stomach/elbows. If you keep the animation the way it is now and simply "lock" the weapon for a given amount of time, people will complain. Now if you animated it properly, and had the character hold the weapon across his chest and fall to his knees then elbows, and then align himself for aim, I think this idea would be far better received.

On the note of going prone, please remove the ability to move sideways with the iron sights up. Its just not possible.

And another note, there should defenitly be a maximum elevation that you can shoot while prone. Like the tank turret has a maximum inclination, the same applies in real life to a person firing from the prone. The purpose of the prone position is to minimize your profile (IE your size as a target) and provide a stable firing platform via bracing yourself with your elbows. I just got down on the floor and tried this and I'd feel safe in saying that a maximum elevation for firing from the prone position would be about 35 or 40 degrees. Get down and try it yourself.

-Scott

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-02-20 08:46

CplMilhouse wrote:If you want an accurate measure of time, just code an animation correctly. On the battlefield (or in a blank-fire section attack ) you generally won't go from running to jumping straight onto your face. The way its generally done is to fall to your knees and from there let your body fall forward onto your stomach/elbows. If you keep the animation the way it is now and simply "lock" the weapon for a given amount of time, people will complain. Now if you animated it properly, and had the character hold the weapon across his chest and fall to his knees then elbows, and then align himself for aim, I think this idea would be far better received.

On the note of going prone, please remove the ability to move sideways with the iron sights up. Its just not possible.

And another note, there should defenitly be a maximum elevation that you can shoot while prone. Like the tank turret has a maximum inclination, the same applies in real life to a person firing from the prone. The purpose of the prone position is to minimize your profile (IE your size as a target) and provide a stable firing platform via bracing yourself with your elbows. I just got down on the floor and tried this and I'd feel safe in saying that a maximum elevation for firing from the prone position would be about 35 or 40 degrees. Get down and try it yourself.

-Scott

i didnt even think of that, i always think it looks funny in games where you see someone in prone and they are looking at the sky and their body is at a 90 degree angle

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-20 18:37

i didnt even think of that, i always think it looks funny in games where you see someone in prone and they are looking at the sky and their body is at a 90 degree angle

I've just been thinking about it lately... that quite big rifle with clip inserted is a bit... uncomfortable to look around and aim...

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-02-23 15:52

I think a really good example of how stance changes should be is how it works in Operation: Flashpoint. Soldiers actually use their arms to get themselves down and back up and there's a bit of delay while changing stances.

Yes, OFP does have nice transitions, PLUS for the people who are so worried about not being able to fire whenever they want, you can still fire, BUT your weapon is at about 90 degrees from you're invisible crosshair

If you want some inspiration on how some of this stuff is done (realistically) join the army ... or play OFP