Going prone

Gran · Post by **Gran** » 2006-02-23 11:03

Well the 1.2 patch has stopped the jump and shoot, but it seems the dropping to prone/fire time still needs to be increased. It seems a little too long in Vanilla but I still see a lot of Diving Dan. I hate that guy.

Campez · Post by **Campez** » 2006-02-23 11:06

I like it as it is, irl would probadly not get down in 0,25 seconds or what it takes, cuz you have all this gear, but yea if i was under heavy fire and my life depended on it, i would probadly do it

Post by **Wraith** » 2006-02-23 14:16

I beg to differ. Under Fire in real life you can get down in an amazing amount of time and that's with 80 pounds of gear..... Even if you just let gravity do the job you get down faster in RL than you do in the game. On the other hand. A civilian doesn't just drop, they get on thier knees then hands and then lay down so I guess the timing is just right for that...

DelTaGC · Post by **DelTaGC** » 2006-02-23 14:26

As discussed here http://realitymod.com/forum/t4061-standing-crouching-and-prone.html
the best way to rework prone position is to create a new animation.

Anyway it should be easier to go prone if you are already crouched.

Campez · Post by **Campez** » 2006-02-23 14:29

Wraith wrote:I beg to differ. Under Fire in real life you can get down in an amazing amount of time and that's with 80 pounds of gear..... Even if you just let gravity do the job you get down faster in RL than you do in the game. On the other hand. A civilian doesn't just drop, they get on thier knees then hands and then lay down so I guess the timing is just right for that...

Yeah i havent been a soldier (im 14) so i dont know much about that

Post by **Wraith** » 2006-02-23 14:52

Trust me, Some one shooting at you can make you move MUCH faster than normal.

Campez · Post by **Campez** » 2006-02-23 14:54

Yeah i think that to, it depends on your life

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-02-23 18:11

The problem I have with going prone, is not the length of time (I think its a good amount right now)

Its the way you go prone.... must be all super soldiers to be able to ACCURATELY aim down your sites while you are slamming yourself into the ground.... That is complete BS.

So, with this super soldier skill of being able to be totally accurate while hitting the ground, in CQB situation people simply hit the dirt right in front of you, spraying you on the way down, and almost always getting kills because of it.

If you tried spraying your weapon in RL on your way down to prone, you would end up shooting yourself or your teammates. But You WOULD NOT get the first shot on the enemy, especially if they were looking at you through their sites and you were flopping on the floor. In BF2, this isnt the case, and its really annoying.

Ninjo · Post by **Ninjo** » 2006-02-23 20:18

Thats bc in BF2 there is too much of a penalty for trying to stand while you fire through your sites and too much of a bonus for the prone. IMO guns in prone and guns standing should have the same accuracy off the bat but guns in prone should have much higher accuracy retention while fire and have a better maximum accuracy after you have stood still for a minute.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-02-23 20:23

Exactly, I suggested that earlier. The only major thing laying down helps with is dealing with recoil. At long ranges though, you would feel a difference because it's impossible to keep your body still.

mrmong · Post by **mrmong** » 2006-02-23 20:39

on another note wouldnt it be easier to shoot while standing than crouching, because when ever i go shooting it seems easier to hold a scope steady while standing straight than crouched where it feels kinda uncomfortable and a lot harder to balance

Gran · Post by **Gran** » 2006-02-23 21:13

Wraith wrote:I beg to differ. Under Fire in real life you can get down in an amazing amount of time and that's with 80 pounds of gear..... Even if you just let gravity do the job you get down faster in RL than you do in the game. On the other hand. A civilian doesn't just drop, they get on thier knees then hands and then lay down so I guess the timing is just right for that...

The problem is not with the time it takes to go prone, if you actually READ my post it has to do with prone/fire timeing. You could easily get down quicker IRL then in BF2, but you could never pull off these amazing shots. For one thing, when you drop your weapon and arms are breaking the fall, if they aren't then good luck fireing while your eyes are watering from getting the wind knocked out of you. If you don't land on a rock. I personally don't care about a new animation, all they need to do is make it so you have a slight delay (longer then the blink of an eye) before you can fire after going prone.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-02-24 01:16

Gran's got it spot on.

Dont worry about making new animations etc, just get it so Dive Shooting isnt viable.

CplMilhouse · Post by **CplMilhouse** » 2006-02-24 01:43

lonelyjew wrote:Exactly, I suggested that earlier. The only major thing laying down helps with is dealing with recoil. At long ranges though, you would feel a difference because it's impossible to keep your body still.

Have you ever fired a rifle? Don't say yes, because I'll know you're lying.

At any range, its far easier to keep your sights on track while prone over standing. Kneeling/sitting is ok, but prone offers a fully supported position that is by far the most accurate. Ever watched target shooting? Ever seen a sniper fire standing up? Next you'll tell me that bipods don't do anything either.

mrmong wrote:on another note wouldnt it be easier to shoot while standing than crouching, because when ever i go shooting it seems easier to hold a scope steady while standing straight than crouched where it feels kinda uncomfortable and a lot harder to balance

While you're crouching, you can rest your supporting elbow (left elbow for right-handed shooters) on your knee. This steadys the muzzle and makes for more accurate shooting than the standing position. I agree, its not increidbly comfortable, but hold a rifle to your eye while standing for even 5 minutes and tell me its comfortable.

-Scott

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-02-24 03:34

Jeez man, calm your *** down. This is the first post to piss me off in a long time, and the first time on this forum. How the hell do you know if I've fired a rifle? I'll admit I haven't but you have no place to call me liar if I had(that's what pissed me off because I go way out of my way to be truthful). So what if I haven't fired a rifle, does that meen all my posts are ****? How many people here have flown in f-35's, driven in m1a2's, or manned a .50 cal machine gun? Maybe a few have done one of the things above, but probably most have done none of it. Does that meen their opinions on the matter are to be discounted? I'm sure most have never seen a true battle(yes I know we have military members here but real battles are getting rarer and rarer) but their knowledge of history and first hand accounts is more than enough to make them some authority on the matter.

As for that whole sniper standing arguement, I'd say they stay down to not be seen as much as they stay down get an accurate shot. I don't think I'd give away my position after crawling for two days to get to where I was supposed to be, then waiting another three for my target to come into my sights.

As for my whole statement, I could be very likely wrong, but all that meens is my idea wouldn't be used. No need to be a **** about it. If you can't handle giving constructive critism then don't post at these forums. Go to a vanilla forum if you need to belittle others to get a hard on.

I'm sorry if I took this way to personally, but I hate being called a liar. Also, I enjoy these forums because of the laxed enviroment where people correct eachother rather than yelling at and insulting one another.

CplMilhouse · Post by **CplMilhouse** » 2006-02-24 07:32

I apologise for the way I came off. No, most poeple here have never flown, or been involved with the military at all. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but if you don't know, or you're shuffling something around in your head as a suggestion, post it as a question, instead of a statement of fact. I'll guard my tongue and try not to come off so sharply in the future.

Now I'll explain the difference between shooting standing/kneeling and prone.

When you're firing from a standing position, you're relying solely on muscle strength to keep the rifle steady. Hold your hand out in front of you, and you'll see that steady is a very difficult thing to do. You may see competetive shooters using small caliber rifles (like Biathalon, if you're watching the olympics) bracing their supporting hand with an elbow on their hip. This changes things in that you're not using (which twitch, pulse with your heartbeat, and are generally very difficult to hold perfectly still) to using your bone structure to support the rifle.

Firing from a knee, same principle. Your supporting hand will have the elbow resting on your knee, much more comfortably than trying to do this standing, and you're able to hold the front stock of the rifle firmly.

When firing from the prone position, you're a solid base, with both elbows planted firmy on the ground, and relying almost solely on your bone structure to support the weapon. This means that little twitches from your muscles, your breathing, and a million other little things that make you move/sway, almost none of the effects are transferred to muzzle sway, thus allowing you to be far more accurate.

Lesson learned, for both of us.

-Scott

Gran · Post by **Gran** » 2006-02-24 08:30

fuzzhead wrote:Gran's got it spot on.

Dont worry about making new animations etc, just get it so Dive Shooting isnt viable.

Thank you, I really think this needs to be addressed. I find it distracts from tactical movement just to round a corner, catch the enemy off guard, have them imediately drop and blast you away.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-02-24 16:30

Hehe, I must apologize my self. I read this at the wrong time(right after closing at work) and I think I was bit overly sensative about this. I appreciate the apology though. I'll have stay away from forums when I'm in such a **** mood I guess.

mrmong · Post by **mrmong** » 2006-02-24 18:30

hmm i forgot about the stealth sniper aspect, i usually lean on a tree or prone leaning on whatever natural supports there could be.. i tried kneeling again and the sights wobble all over the place and feels wrong i can stand for a lot longer than kneeling and a lot more steady, i suppose army snipers would use bipods or have a stable firing position.