Hovering when shooting

Alex6714 · Post by **Alex6714** » 2008-04-10 22:45

Dempsey wrote: they are not accurate

They most certainly are!

Dempsey · Post by **Dempsey** » 2008-04-11 00:19

No, they are not. Your telling me one of those is precise, have you even seen a helo fire them?

They used for taking out small grids, with inaccurate fire. To a degree yeah they are accurate, but absolutely nothing compared to a HEllfire.

charliegrs · Post by **charliegrs** » 2008-04-11 02:59

the apache can hover and fire its rocket because the pylons can actually pivot up and down. the op is dead on with his suggestion. the rockets are absolute death for anything short of an apc/tank, and would be used much more if we had the ability to fire them while hovering. they make for great saturation bombardment, you can clear an area full of enemy troops easily with a barrage of rockets. using them for AA is a stupid vanilla tactic, theres a reason that the apaches have sidewinders.

Alex6714 · Post by **Alex6714** » 2008-04-11 13:28

Dempsey wrote:No, they are not. Your telling me one of those is precise, have you even seen a helo fire them?

They used for taking out small grids, with inaccurate fire. To a degree yeah they are accurate, but absolutely nothing compared to a HEllfire.

I was talking about the ones in PR.

fludblud · Post by **fludblud** » 2008-04-11 14:36

i agree with the OP, the real apache can fire their hydras while stationary and are used against everything short of MBTs wheras the PR ones can only strafe with their hydras at high speed often rendering them useless.

maybe just simply zero the hydras lower so the apache isnt divebombing every time the pilot wants to aim at something on the ground.

arjan · Post by **arjan** » 2008-04-11 14:43

Nice to hear some people aggreeing with me..
I think it will add something to gameplay. and maybe tactics

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-04-11 15:01

Perhaps the opposite should be implemented...

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2008-04-11 15:10

Alex6714 wrote:This I agree with. Save those hydras for anti air duties, believe me, they are very useful. But still, I usually have my gunner do everything, including taking out enemy choppers.

Dempsey · Post by **Dempsey** » 2008-04-11 15:49

Alex6714 wrote:I was talking about the ones in PR.

...and im talking about real life.

markonymous · Post by **markonymous** » 2008-04-11 16:01

i would say that we should add a more realistic number of hydras to the attack helis. This would make it so that you can use the in other purposes then to defend against other helis (and sometimes planes mohahahahha!) because you could use up a few and still have enough to fend an attacker of.

Post by **Mosquill** » 2008-04-11 16:21

The main problem here is that heli's physics are incorrect. If you lower your heli's nose just 5-10° down then you'll get a huge acceleration power, of course that doesn't happen in real life. Afaik, in order to get max acceleration, a real pilot would lower the nose 30-45° down, while in PR you can get max acceleration with only 10-15°.

ObjectTemplate.maxAngleOfAttack should be increased and engine should be tweaked properly in order to make realistic physics.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-04-11 16:38

Mosquill wrote:The main problem here is that heli's physics are incorrect. If you lower your heli's nose just 5-10° down then you'll get a huge acceleration power, of course that doesn't happen in real life. Afaik, in order to get max acceleration, a real pilot would lower the nose 30-45° down, while in PR you can get max acceleration with only 10-15°.

ObjectTemplate.maxAngleOfAttack should be increased and engine should be tweaked properly in order to make realistic physics.

QFT! I've seen other BF2 mods where if you point the nose forward it doesn't result in crazy acceleration.

fludblud · Post by **fludblud** » 2008-04-11 16:54

Alex6714 wrote:This I agree with. Save those hydras for anti air duties, believe me, they are very useful. But still, I usually have my gunner do everything, including taking out enemy choppers.

oddly enough this mod is called Project REALITY and the last time i heard about reality, air-to-ground rockets were NOT used against aircraft.

if you are using a weapon in a manner where it wouldnt/couldnt be used the same as in reality, then you are contradicting the entire point of the mod in the first place!

101 bassdrive · Post by **101 bassdrive** » 2008-04-11 17:15

Mosquill wrote:The main problem here is that heli's physics are incorrect. If you lower your heli's nose just 5-10° down then you'll get a huge acceleration power, of course that doesn't happen in real life. Afaik, in order to get max acceleration, a real pilot would lower the nose 30-45° down, while in PR you can get max acceleration with only 10-15°.

ObjectTemplate.maxAngleOfAttack should be increased and engine should be tweaked properly in order to make realistic physics.

yes! hell yes!
damn, mosquill, youre on hell of a productive genius

but whoevers in charge, dont add it for the LB's please.

Liquid_Cow · Post by **Liquid_Cow** » 2008-04-11 17:16

OK, after quite a bit of digging I found this at globalsecurities.org

The Apache has four articulating weapons pylons, two on either side of the aircraft, on which weapons or external fuel tanks can be mounted.

Full article here

So yes, the pylons can be pivoted. I seem to recall some video from the 1st Gulf War of hovering Apache's using all their weapons from a hover (hellfire, guns, and hydras) but can't find it right now.

The Hydra 70 and the follow on APKWS (guided hydra's) are both very accurate allowing them to be used on point targets as seen in this video, they are as accurate as the gun is.

[GVIDEO]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0467185383[/GVIDEO]

charliegrs · Post by **charliegrs** » 2008-04-11 17:34

liquid cow got it all right.

irl, the apaches has pylons that pivot. and it is common for the chopper to hover and fire its weapons. such as hiding in a clearing, then popping up and firing off its rockets/hellfires WHILE HOVERING.

using rockets for AA, been playing much vanilla lately?

101 bassdrive · Post by **101 bassdrive** » 2008-04-11 17:57

that crackinggnawingly sound for the mg would be sweet. the AH6 sounds like that aswell

Alex6714 · Post by **Alex6714** » 2008-04-11 18:29

fludblud wrote:oddly enough this mod is called Project REALITY and the last time i heard about reality, air-to-ground rockets were NOT used against aircraft.

if you are using a weapon in a manner where it wouldnt/couldnt be used the same as in reality, then you are contradicting the entire point of the mod in the first place!

If the mod allows me too, I will do it.

I know they aren´t laser accurate in real life but they are in PR, and since whne do you have to helicopters trying to kill each other within 500m?

The main problem here is that heli's physics are incorrect. If you lower your heli's nose just 5-10° down then you'll get a huge acceleration power, of course that doesn't happen in real life. Afaik, in order to get max acceleration, a real pilot would lower the nose 30-45° down, while in PR you can get max acceleration with only 10-15°.

ObjectTemplate.maxAngleOfAttack should be increased and engine should be tweaked properly in order to make realistic physics.

I love you! Please fix the physics! And do you notice, when you reduce throttle to a point, that the controls no longer work (banking, pulling up, etc...)? Also, a question, why are the BHs so unstable compared to the vBF2 one?

Mora · Post by **Mora** » 2008-04-11 18:56

charliegrs wrote:liquid cow got it all right.

irl, the apaches has pylons that pivot. and it is common for the chopper to hover and fire its weapons. such as hiding in a clearing, then popping up and firing off its rockets/hellfires WHILE HOVERING.

using rockets for AA, been playing much vanilla lately?

Have you ever seen a attack chopper fighting against a other attack chopper?
I guess not, i haven't seen it my self too but i wouldn't be surprised if they use hydras for close aa engagement. They do everything to kill it, but things like that happens very rarely.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-04-11 19:25

good post. ill look into this and do some tests.

but, to all of the people who know all about how weapons are used "in reality", get this: when you or your buddies life is in danger, you'll throw rocks.

ie) during operation southern watch in iraq, when a special forces team was being attakced by mi-8 helicopters, an f-15E eagle, out of sidewinders, dropped a gbu-12 laser guided bomb on it after locking it up on its FLIR pod. after several seconds, the crew thought it missed, but sure enough it was vaped.

on another occasion another eagle witnessed iraqi choppers pouring burning kerosene on civillian kurds. after permission to engage was denied, the pair decided to shine their laser designators into the cockpits of the hinds. after that didn't work they made supersonic passes in hopes of snapping a rotor blade. one of them was destroyed, but after the leadership discovered this, they were finally ordered to stay above 30,000 feet.

yes this is supposed to be reality, but it doesnt need to include all the political bs.