Guns in PR(big post)

[Ugly Duck]

OK, so Im sick of games/mods that have guns that may take 4 shots to kill, and then those that take 2. When it comes down to it all a bullet is is a piece of metal that is flying through the air at 3000 feet per second, when it hits you its not going to matter what size it is.
Here is what SHOULD make certain guns good for certain things. A sniper rifle for example, has accuracy, and power(not the damage kind, the kind where it can make a bullet fly for a half a mile and still pack a punch), its drawbacks, it has relativly low ROF and is cumbersome(compared to an assault rifle its not exactly compact). So in a GAME this should translate to.... not losing damage over distance(you can reach out and "touch" someone rather than have to run into them), the guy carrying it shouldnt be as fast as the guy with the assauly rifle, it should be the most accurate gun in the game and nothing else should be as accurate(or come relatively close IMO), as well as being "wobbly" unless prone or resting on something(if this is possible).
Lets have another example, for comparison. well try an LMG, like the M249 or RPK. IRL it is heavy(when compared to a standard weapon such as an M16), it has a high ROF, it has a larger cone of fire than an assault rifle.. but less kick than a rifle because of the weight, and posibly most important is it has a large ammo capacity. In the game it should be slower to run with than anything other than say a RPG or AT4, it should have a slightly larger cone of fire than a M16, but slightly less kick because of the weight, but it should woblle the most out of any gun when not prone or having it resting on something, and finaly a good ammo cappacity, as well as losing some power over distance.
Well do one more thing, just because when I started typing this was what I was originally posting about, pistols. A pistol should have the cone of fire like that of an assault rifle, it should have more kick, but should not wobble like heavier guns would, but most importantly(at least I think) it should lose the most power after going a good distance.

***If "bleeding" is able to be incoperated it should be yet another deciding factor in gun damage. A 9 mm round in the arm should not cause much bleeding, while a .50 cal round should in effect blow your arm off(or close to it) and unless theres a medic no more than 10 seconds away you should be gone.

Those are my thoughts, fell free to add anything you want(prefferably on topic)

[ArchEnemy]

OK, so Im sick of games/mods that have guns that may take 4 shots to kill, and then those that take 2. When it comes down to it all a bullet is is a piece of metal that is flying through the air at 3000 feet per second, when it hits you its not going to matter what size it is.

The speed of rifle bullets varies between 600 and 5000 feet (180 and 1500 meters) per second. And so the damage they causes are different.


Also that a bullet can be made of different stuff (Steel CK 45, Copper, Nickel, Tombak, Hardened lead, Duralumin, Tungsten and Brass) Every different stuff got anothor density (which varies from 2.7 kg/l (alu) to 11 kg/l (h. lead)

[JS.Fortnight.A]

Ugly Duck, Arch made a good point, so you can rest assured that our mod will be sure to look at ballistics very closely and 'cover all the bases'. I hope that the growing community will be pleasaeed with the final outcome.

[Ugly Duck]

Mkay, so if one bullet is made of brass and it hits you going say... 2000 fps, and another is made of steel hits at the same place at 1000 fps. Could you explain what the difference is going to be assuming it hit say.... your gut? I am aware not every bullet or every gun is exactly the same, but IRL your not going to say oh well that one was only going 1000 feet per second and was made of copper so I dont have to worry about it. A bullet is bullet, now shot gun's dont use bullets, then again the only thing shot guns are used for now is breaking down doors.. The point is any gun that hits you in the chest from 10 feet away should do the same damage, the idea is that they are given realistic ranges and accuracies and their weights are simulated instead of just taking the easy way out and saying that because this one shoots a special bullet it should do more damage no matter what. While that would change completel if there were kevlar or other bullet proof materials involved.

[Black Beret]

Mkay, so if one bullet is made of brass and it hits you going say... 2000 fps, and another is made of steel hits at the same place at 1000 fps. Could you explain what the difference is going to be assuming it hit say.... your gut? I am aware not every bullet or every gun is exactly the same, but IRL your not going to say oh well that one was only going 1000 feet per second and was made of copper so I dont have to worry about it. A bullet is bullet, now shot gun's dont use bullets, then again the only thing shot guns are used for now is breaking down doors.. The point is any gun that hits you in the chest from 10 feet away should do the same damage, the idea is that they are given realistic ranges and accuracies and their weights are simulated instead of just taking the easy way out and saying that because this one shoots a special bullet it should do more damage no matter what. While that would change completel if there were kevlar or other bullet proof materials involved.

I think I know what you're trying to say.

Anyway, just relax. Since we are a realism mod, we will be making sure our ammunitions ballistics are as authentic as possible.

[Ugly Duck]

I am relaxed, I just dont want it to be like DC. With people getting sniped by PKMs while their CAR-15 cant do damage for shit if the targets more than 50 feet away.

[ArchEnemy]

Mkay, so if one bullet is made of brass and it hits you going say... 2000 fps, and another is made of steel hits at the same place at 1000 fps. Could you explain what the difference is going to be assuming it hit say.... your gut? I am aware not every bullet or every gun is exactly the same, but IRL your not going to say oh well that one was only going 1000 feet per second and was made of copper so I dont have to worry about it. A bullet is bullet, now shot gun's dont use bullets, then again the only thing shot guns are used for now is breaking down doors.. The point is any gun that hits you in the chest from 10 feet away should do the same damage, the idea is that they are given realistic ranges and accuracies and their weights are simulated instead of just taking the easy way out and saying that because this one shoots a special bullet it should do more damage no matter what. While that would change completel if there were kevlar or other bullet proof materials involved.

The level of penetration, some bullets cant reach the heart while other bullets go through the hole person

[Ugly Duck]

Hmmmmmmmmm what kind of guns?(couldnt get to the heart)

[Dirtball]

I am relaxed, I just dont want it to be like DC. With people getting sniped by PKMs while their CAR-15 cant do damage for shit if the targets more than 50 feet away.

Not to say that DC had it right in that case...but keep in mind it's all abut kinetic energy and momentum. A heavier bullet has more energy (and momentum) at the same velocity. If I get hit in the shoulder with a 9mm AP round from a pistol, most likely it isn't going to kill me. And In a combat situation, most likely I'm going to have so much adrenaline pumping that that one little 9mm is barely going to hinder me. Now take instead I get hit by a 9mm Hollow Point from an mp5 (keep in mind it is agianst the Geneva convention to use these rounds...but for the sake of arguement...) This bullet though probably very similar in weight is going to be traveling faster and to make matters worse it's going to tear apart my shoulder and not just make a hole. The same is true when you look at larger rounds or rounds that are moving faster. Every bullet is very different. And yes a bullet, any bullet, is going to hurt when it hits, it isn't necessary going to inflict the same amount of damage.

[Black Beret]

I am relaxed, I just dont want it to be like DC. With people getting sniped by PKMs while their CAR-15 cant do damage for shit if the targets more than 50 feet away.

You see, that's just it: it's not going to be like DC.

[ArchEnemy]

Hmmmmmmmmm what kind of guns?(couldnt get to the heart)

i exagerated a little bit .

Here you have some information about the penetration of a bullet in a body
http://www.allsafedefense.com/Special_P ... etTest.htm

[Ugly Duck]

Mmmmmmm... I guess I was wrong. But I still dont want it to be like DC... guns should not be given a laser-like status just to simulate how they work IRL. Instead other things should also be considered such as accuracy and weight. IE the heavier a gun is, the more it should move around(like the sniper rifle in DC) but at the same time the less kick it should have. I suppose my post regarding bullets all doing the same damage was incorect, but I still think a lot more should be taken into account then just the bullet.

[ArchEnemy]

its difficult to code a bullet.

Normally a bullet code looks like this in bf1942:

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.create Projectile sg44Projectile
ObjectTemplate.loadSoundScript ..\..\Common\Sounds/projectile.ssc
ObjectTemplate.geometry tracklight_m1
ObjectTemplate.timeToLive CRD_NONE/1/0/0
ObjectTemplate.endEffectTemplate e_RichoSand
ObjectTemplate.hasCollisionPhysics 1
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.0
ObjectTemplate.hasStartEffect 0
ObjectTemplate.hasCollisionEffect 1
ObjectTemplate.hasOnTimeEffect 0
ObjectTemplate.invisibleAtEndEffect 1
ObjectTemplate.dieAfterColl 1
ObjectTemplate.stopAtEndEffect 1
ObjectTemplate.invisible 0
ObjectTemplate.material 216

Like you said it works like a laser.

But by adding more functions it will act like a real bullet.

Code: Select all

   ObjectTemplate.StopAtEndEffect
   ObjectTemplate.TimeToLive
   ObjectTemplate.SetRotation
   ObjectTemplate.SetAcceleration
   ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage
   ObjectTemplate.MinDamage
   ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage
   ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage
   ObjectTemplate.Drag

If the BF2 engine supports variables, the possibility of stimulating the wind would be possible.

[DrZero]

you'll find that, the difference between brass and steel is very minimal on a density level before you start shooting... and it becomes even less at 2000m/ss... momentum = velocity*mass.... their mass will be very similar so the momentum isnt going to be that different.... 30x1000 as opposed to 26x1000... it may seem like a like, but something hitting you with 260g/mm^3 as opposed to 300g/mm^3, both are going to hurt, and both are going to leave a very nice hole, suprisingly. brass more so

[[tR]Greasy_Mullet]

Will we see kevlar vest and the damage zone adjusted based on the bullets balistics?

[ArchEnemy]

Still unknown it all depens on the BF2 engine

[[tR]Greasy_Mullet]

That would be a nice feature. There are so many possiblities with this new engine! WOOT!

[ArchEnemy]

I am not sure of that, of course it would be heaven if the engine will be as complicated as the UT engine. but i dont think that they wont go that far and so we will have to take out the max of the engine.