[Question] Some 3ds Max questions

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Hey guys - Im just getting to grips with 3ds max and theres on or two questions google cant help me with!

1 How to I constrain Micromesh or HSDS for cuts in the main object ( eg, when I cut out a window on my heli, it messes up the mesh modifiers even if I chamfer the edges.

2. If you attach say a tail cylinder to a heli body, does it have to be attached on all edge faces or can you cheat, and say attach it with one vertice and have the polys just passing through each other

3. I cant fill in this hole in the nose with polys as I get and "illegal face" error. All the edges and vertices are there - can someone explain why it wont work. ( Do I bridge edges? )

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4. Is there a quick way of smoothing areas eg it was a nightmare when I added the tail to my heli body as when I adjusted one area, it affected another.

5. I read somewhere that if you use the mirror tool, it messes up the model when its exported to bf2. Do i just clone the one side and flip it, or do I have to swap the values or anything like that? Is there any other quirks I have to watch for between 3d max and bf2?

6. How do I hide or freeze part of the object so that I dont move it by accident when I working on another part of it ( hide or freeze slection doesnt seem to work as It only seems to work with other objects )

I have many many more questions, but they are the most important ones at the moment. Any help with these would be greatly appriciated!

[ice_killer]

1 i never used that modifyr
2 you can atacht them the make a cilinder and cut in in half like you model has now then atacht it and brigde the hole
3 yes you can brigde them turn of youre modifyr and then brigde them whit the edge tool
4 yes you to polygon mode *hotkey 5 in edit poly* select the faces you whant t osmooth scroll down until you see smooth groups and select autosmooth
5 as far as i know that wont happen i normaly use symmertry modifyr
6 right click on the part that you whant to hide or freeze now you can select hide selection or under object properties freeze

GL

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Thanks ice - thats a massive help. One question on the object freeze - I know how to freeze or hide a whole object, but how do I freeze just part of an object. eg. The fuselage is one whole object, but if I working on the top view I dont wont to accidently select vertices on the bottom of the fuselage if you see what I mean. I want to selectivly freeze vertices on the same object.

Also you say you dont use Micromesh or HSDS. What do you use to smoothing? And why not use these modifers? ( I know Micromesh adds loads of polys but HSDS only seems to double the number, so Ive been using that )

[ice_killer]

to hide a part of youre model go to polygon *key 5* select the faces you whant to hide then scrole down you will see there hide selection under edit geometry

for smoothing i use the standart modifyr of edit poly press hotkey 5 select the part that you what to smooth then scroll down untill you see polygon propeties you will see there a squar whit 30 numbers or 31 i forgot the exact number, under that there is a button cald auto smooth press it and youre selected mesh has been smooth *thanks R-dev Stigger for this tip

and why im not using tose modifyer it will make the poly / traingle count to high for the Bf engine

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Thanks again ice - thats a great help. I keep scrapping fuselages as I learn more about how the mesh works, but I think Ive got it now. Im not really going for low polys just now, but Ive learn so much about the shape of the heli, I sure I could do a low poly version. Heres a couple of renders of the latest one. It took me SO long to get the rear correct - where the tail enters the body and the body tapers off. Hopefully this one will be a keeper though!

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[Zimmer]

Is it a bell?

sorry for off topic, but had to ask.

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Yeah its a bell 407.

PS that crease in the tail is there in r/l - it nearly made me cry

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OK Ive nearly finished the fuselage now, but Ive got a couple more questions.

How do I put glass in the windows and add a helicopter like texture and paint job ( is there a place to dl textures etc or are they in max?

When I put the shell modifer on it doubles the polys. Do you need this modifer applied for bf2 or is it just to help model it?

[CodeRedFox]

x

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Cheers for the kiss fox! It would be great if some one could answer the questions for when I get home from work. Im sure Ice isnt the only guy who can help here! Any way a couple more questions while Im posting.

Is there a shortcut key to made an object seethru?

I dont really understand what material IDs are, but should I keep objects separate if theyre going to have a differnt texture

How do I assisgn different levels of smoothing to diffent parts ( I presume this is what the 1-30 boxes are under smooth modifer )

Heres another pic - Ive been working on the main rotor mechinism, which is almost ready to be added and then I just need to paint it! Im thinking of painting it up like a UN helicopter.

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[Teek]

for glass create another mesh/object and give it a transparent material.

[Pride]

To get the glass: Model any windows as a separate object, then go into the material editor (the four little balls towards the left of the top bar.
Click on any of the grey balls (materials), and find the option that says opacity. Change it to something like 50. You can also edit the colour by clicking on the little box next to ambient. Then simply drag the ball onto your windows.

Hope that helps.

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Is there a quick way to fit the new object to my window space or do I just do it by the vertices. I know I can clone the vertices from the window frame, but can I covert these into a new object?

[CodeRedFox]

Cheers for the kiss fox!

Sorry about that I thought I had replied to another thread and realized I replied to yours instead and couldn't find a delete button.

But I will try and answer some questions, but allot of the questions your asking are basic max functions. Check the help file first which I still use on a daily basis ....stay with me...

I dont really understand what material IDs are, but should I keep objects separate if theyre going to have a differnt texture

Material ID are just numbers (values) attached to an object. So if you have a one mesh with different textures, setting the object up with a multi material save you the hassle of reselecting each face and assigning it a texture. BF2 uses this kinda of the same but has ID channels that are for certain things. (need to read up on that one)

How do I assisgn different levels of smoothing to diffent parts ( I presume this is what the 1-30 boxes are under smooth modifer )

The 1-30 are smoothing groups. If you have smoothing group 1 and smoothing group two there will be a "seam" by selecting a few poly around the seam and setting the smoothing number to 1 an 2 they will become smooth, , again check out the Max help file for this

When I put the shell modifer on it doubles the polys. Do you need this modifer applied for bf2 or is it just to help model it?

Most likely bf2 wont import a modifier, everything should be collapsed.


Heres a good tip, I edit polys with editable poly not editable mesh it has a few good options like bridge and cap (check the help file for explanation). Then when your happy with the model add a turn to mesh or right click and collapse to mesh. This will turn it back into a editable mesh, the bf2 exporter wont take a edit poly object or modifiers.

3dsMax and all 3d programs a big beasts i.e the reason people go to school for it. So if you feel lot sometimes its because your jumping into the middle and not learning the basics.

This is not a bad mouth post, far from it, I was once a new 3d guy too. If this is something you REALLY want to do, 3d that is, it wouldn't hurt to hit up the basic tutorials that are with max

I'm having the same boring time with bf2editor tutorials

[vfn4i83]

Shell

Is a good modifier, but like all other u have to be carefully with it use. It create the other side of the poly, so it always going to double it.

The first and only time I used it, was and I has a fully modeled APC, and whiling to have the entire thing done quickly by inside.

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Cheers fox - I was J/K about the kiss
You're right - I am a beginner - I hadnt even heard of 3 d max, about a week ago, but thanks to the tutorials Im getting pretty good at the modelling side - its just there are some basic things that I dont know. Most answers I can find on the forums, but sometimes I dont know the terminology so I dont get the right results ( eg I had problems with one question because I was putting "join" instead of attach in the search term. Anyway my models almost complete now - I just need to texture it etc ( which Ive just found out is pretty complex ) And then I can learn about the bf2 editor to put my models in and fly them around - Sure it will be simple right !

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The big problem Ive got right now is that Im using the symmetry modifer, but the heli has the tail just on the reflected side and it blend into the body so I cant add it as a separate object. How do I make the reflection "real" or editable. I know I can clone the one side, but how do I flip the clone and do I have to worry about the values ( heard a bit about "noramls and suchlike, but I dont really understand it right now. ( ps all the forums say use mirror with copy instead, but then everywhere else it says never use mirror ! )
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[CodeRedFox]

not really sure what the problem is but I never really use mirror. I use symmetry, but its also depends on what your doing.

What you can do is break up the object into a few different pieces. That might help. Just remember to put it back together when you export.

Mirror -
Mirror will mirror your object along its pivot but sometimes messes up IK's and such (your not using IK). Somtimes you will have issues with normals but this is because you might have created your mesh wrong (simple vertex problems) A Wield selected could help....COULD

Symmetry -
Will mirror the object but will create the result in the same object, sometime clipping your object, which you will have to move the symmetry gizmo.

Normals -
A normal is the direction a face (the smallest visible object, triangle) that will be rendered. Faces/poly's are not two sided in a game engine.

Modeling for a game engine
To see how the game would see it select all your objects -> right click -> Object Properties -> check Backface Cull. Yes this will make the back sides of your object see through until you look at it on the other side. This is who normals work, also the reason you use shell modifier.

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Cheers - that explains it a bit better. On my heli above, the symmetrical reflection is the right side of the heli. The vertical tail ( not added yet ) kind of bulges out of the right side opposite the tail rotor. Should I just clone the left side ( fuselage is finished now apart from tail so I dont need anymore symmetry) and flip it ( how do I flip it )

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This the best picture I can find which shows the tail if you can see what I mean ( everyone takes pictures of helis from the other side )

Breaking off the tail may be the solution - I didnt think of that! Seems crazy I cant copy over the other side though and manually weld it

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Well Ive now finished my model so I answered the questions myself. I think the symettry problem may have been because the alignment was wrong. I dont know - just suddenly the 2 halves were joined and editable! Ive got to skin and texture it now which is a whole new subject, and as far as I understand, quite time consuming. Im going for the UN colours as its white all over and just has "UN" on the side. Should make life slightly easier I hope!

The helis at 2500 polys atm. Alot of these are the rotor head and skids. I kind of stopped worrying about poly counts, but I reckon I could get it down to 1500 polys quite easily. Anyone know what I should aim for ? I only want to run it on a local server and my comp is pretty good - it just depends on the bf2 engine I suppose.

I still need to do a simple interior and also the cockpit view. Im not bothered about the different LOD versions - do I have to add these anyway though?

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