PRMM is great! But...

Sovetskeey · Post by **Sovetskeey** » 2006-03-01 22:56

I've been playing PRMM the last couple days and I absolutely love the infantry fighting. This is what Battlefield 2 should have been like! My only complaints are twofold

1. So far the only map I've truly enjoyed playing PRMM on has been the 16-player Steel Thunder (with 40 people on the GH server). Alot of people have been saying Oasis is great but I havn't had a chance to try it yet. The problem with the maps is with AAS running they get really lop-sided in favour of the defense. I've played both Karkands, Dalian Plant and Dragon Valley so far and the defense won every time. With AAS running, the maps need to start with each team controlling half the flags. For now it's kind of annoying but I'm sure a few AAS-friendly maps in future releases should make PRMM perfect

2. Armour is wayyyy unbalanced. With so much focus put into the infantry fighting being realistic, it kind of turns armour into super duper invincible killing machines. I know... In real life if you see a tank you turn tail and run but in Battlefield 2 there aren't really a whole lot of places to duck out of the way of a tank, especially when AAS is on and it forces all the armour to the same area. Also, 32 player Steel Thunder lags unbelievably with that much armour in it.

You guys really do have a killer mod happening here. I have absolutely no complaints about any of the other changes you've made to Battlefield 2. I just can't get into it when I play it though. You just sit around one flag the entire game and nobody ever captures it. Or if it does get captured, the defending team just takes it right back before the attacker can get set up and move on. I'll keep an eye on the mod but I don't think I could play the tournament just yet unless you guys have a set of good custom maps that you use for it.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2006-03-01 23:06

You say defense wins but that is only because people dont know how or are unwilling to coordinate a proper attack. You cant attack in little groups on well defended flags, its suicide. But if you have a real multi prong attack its devistating as most defenders are not prepared for a full force assault. The difficulty has been raised quite a bit in PR, so its up to the player to rise to the challenge or get owned.

Armour is much weaker in PR than in vanilla. AT rockets will own armour if you know how to use it. 1 will take the fight out of the tanker and 2 hes good as dead.

Post by **Katarn** » 2006-03-01 23:09

Sovetskeey, weren't you in my squad as USMC and we completely destroyed the chinese on 32 player steel thunder? It wasn't a standstill. Plus, i got that super-awesome AT tank kill from direct side.

battle6 · Post by **battle6** » 2006-03-01 23:57

I dont understand the switch to AAS to be honest. AAS creates a "kill-zone" and removes the element of manuever warfare since you have to fight where the enemy is. Winning should be a matter of territory control, not killing the enemy.

As far as coordinating an attack, even on the GH server, it rarely happens. I dont know about others, but no one seems to be using VoIP, or even use the TS server. This game needs comms to be fun.

acadiancrusader · Post by **acadiancrusader** » 2006-03-02 00:29

military arithmatic:

1 well grounded defender = 5 assaulters

yes, that is the cold hard facts. this is where teamwork comes in. for the assault to be affective, they need a plan and they need to follow it.

yes, i agree that the game is much much more fun with VOIP, but unfortunately, the ingame voip is a POS. most clans will use TS. because of this, pub play will rarely have a full platoon on comms.

but if there is something that i am hoping to see implemented in the near future, it is better and more effective commo rose functions. as it stands, we have far, far too much useless spam ingame. both text and ingame voices. if they could significantly be reduced, as well as having useful option that would promote teamplay, i'd be a very happy camper! =P

to sum, don't blame AAS, blame the players. don't make excuses for so-called ingame imbalances (i hardly think that there really are any atm). adapt and overcome. learn from failures, and take a different approach.

the biggest problem that i see is people STILL run and gun. they still move in a straight line. never flanking or setting up proper ambushes. it will take a bit of time for the average player to get used to this, but they will eventually learn or stop playing.

Post by **KingofCamelot** » 2006-03-02 00:34

AAS stops some of the lame stuff that occurs in conquest mode. In real life, you can't sneak behind far behind enemy lines, raise your flag instead of theirs, and then start spawning in mass reinforcements. In vanilla BF2 is far too easy to sneak to an unguarded flag and take it. Lets face it, no one wants to sit back and defend the backmost flags for a lone soldier that may never come. AAS also creates bigger battles, because it concentrates troops.

However, that being said, I agree with a suggestion here the other day, which was AAS with multiple flags capturable. In fact, we are have gotten permission from the creator of the Domination game mode to use his code in the mod. This game mode is like AAS, but allows multiple flags to be captured. Like AAS, you can't skip to the back flags, but there are about 2 flags each team can capture when they own a given base.

Sgt.Sappo · Post by **Sgt.Sappo** » 2006-03-02 00:45

battle6 wrote:I dont understand the switch to AAS to be honest. AAS creates a "kill-zone" and removes the element of manuever warfare since you have to fight where the enemy is. Winning should be a matter of territory control, not killing the enemy.

As far as coordinating an attack, even on the GH server, it rarely happens. I dont know about others, but no one seems to be using VoIP, or even use the TS server. This game needs comms to be fun.

Gotta say I disagree 100% with your comment,

Last night while playing for 3-4 hours straight, I saw many many instances where the attackers used flanking from 2 directions plus a diversionary frontal assault to totally wipe-out the defenders. While AAS restricts you to attacking or defending one particular flag, that DOESNT stop you using tactics to assault and conquer the defense.

And on another note, I would be happy with zero vehicles and just straight infantry play..... but hey thats me

Sgt.Sappo · Post by **Sgt.Sappo** » 2006-03-02 02:08

Oh and I forgot, forcing the armour into one choke point is a GOOD thing... bye bye armour.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-02 04:11

Yea, vehicles just seem to hurt this mod because people from Vanilla will just sti back and kill you thinking they will get points for it. Saw this today and almost everytime I play on Dragon Valley. That or either up the spawn time on the vehicles more while decreasing the ammount of them and up the damage they can take which makes them more valuable instead of for spamming from across the map.

acadiancrusader · Post by **acadiancrusader** » 2006-03-02 05:21

'[R-DEV wrote:KingofCamelot']AAS stops some of the lame stuff that occurs in conquest mode. In real life, you can't sneak behind far behind enemy lines, raise your flag instead of theirs, and then start spawning in mass reinforcements. In vanilla BF2 is far too easy to sneak to an unguarded flag and take it. Lets face it, no one wants to sit back and defend the backmost flags for a lone soldier that may never come. AAS also creates bigger battles, because it concentrates troops.

However, that being said, I agree with a suggestion here the other day, which was AAS with multiple flags capturable. In fact, we are have gotten permission from the creator of the Domination game mode to use his code in the mod. This game mode is like AAS, but allows multiple flags to be captured. Like AAS, you can't skip to the back flags, but there are about 2 flags each team can capture when they own a given base.

that is great news indeed!

Zantetsuken · Post by **Zantetsuken** » 2006-03-02 06:02

that's not flanking and capturing rear flags, thats tactics, like KingofCamelot said, if your team has to use good tactics to take a flag, in the cases you mention, they followed using tactics the way King described - if they had just sent a few 2 man groups in or all out frontal assault/rushed, they woulda been owned

you just have flanking to capture rear flags and flanking as a tactic to coordinate an attack on a flag...

BadKarma · Post by **BadKarma** » 2006-03-02 10:44

Sovetskeey wrote: 1. So far the only map I've truly enjoyed playing PRMM on has been the 16-player Steel Thunder (with 40 people on the GH server). Alot of people have been saying Oasis is great but I havn't had a chance to try it yet. The problem with the maps is with AAS running they get really lop-sided in favour of the defense. I've played both Karkands, Dalian Plant and Dragon Valley so far and the defense won every time. With AAS running, the maps need to start with each team controlling half the flags. For now it's kind of annoying but I'm sure a few AAS-friendly maps in future releases should make PRMM perfect

Agree with you here!
I think the main problem is that the attacking team has way to less tickets to win the game.

Peter-SAS · Post by **Peter-SAS** » 2006-03-02 14:33

I honestly think this mod has levelled the playing field with regards to infantry v tanks.

I prefer it when tanks sit at distance. One of my pet hates in vanilla was how they would just steam into a flag, blowing up everything, and then start reversing and moving foward again in break neck speed trying to avoid suicide bombers, or C4 whores. I must admit, I like blowing up tanks with C4, but now the Engineer class and AT are actually more useful, and realised that tanks almost always engange at range, which gives you time to hide, regroup and plan a course of action to take them out.

If anyone played VBF2 after the patch. It takes about FIVE AT rockets to kill a tank, and about 2 of those shots usually go straight through the tank without causing any damage.

Now its 2, and the tanks go on fire quicker. Plus they have much longer respawn times. So people need to protect them and use them strategicaly.

I'd agree that the Special Forces class needs revising, as all C4 can really do now is blow bridges and Tow stuff etc.