Level Suggestions

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-02 03:15

From some of the other posts I have read and people on the sever, I think the levels are what are really holding back PRMM. The truth is, most of the BF2 levels weren't meant for straight infantry fighting and were made for more vehicles since they are just wide open kill zones.

The levels like this are Dragon Valley(90% I guarentee me agree with me on this), Kubra Dam, Daquin Oilfields, Fushe Pass, Dalian Plant and the other vehicle dominated maps with almost no cover at all.

I think most people would agree with me that Steel Thunder, Oasis, and Karkand 2 and even Songhua are the best along with teh original urban maps like Shaqi, Mastuur and Karkand 1. Even though the karkand are definately leaning towards the defense unless the offense is really, really coordinated, they are still much more fun then teh other ones I first listed.

PRMM is more of an infantry game which we can all tell, and it rips tactics completely apart when you have to charge across open fields with only 3 sec smokes into enemy fire and camping apcs like WW1.

And the difference between this game and vanilla is the vehicle combat versus squad/infantry combat. Now I am not for taking out vehicles completely, but I think they just play too much of a role in maps like those and the players in them are never realible enough to help the infantry out.

Also, another point that can be added is that no one ever defends since there really aren't that many people to defend with everyone attacking and such. Especially on the larger 32 player maps with only 40 people, AAS becomes like Conquest again since the map is so large that no one defends and gets scattered everywhere doing their own thing. Even with my squad attacking and some people staying at the flag, it still becomes a ring around the rosy in those huge maps.

You can say that it takes teamwork all you want, but the fact is, most of the maps are just too big in GloryHoundz etc. and hardly any teamwork occurs on them compared to the others smaller 16 players urban maps and Steel Thunder.

I am posting this in hopes that the admins of servers like GloryHoundz etc. will take the maps I first listed off the server and just see if everyone is much happier with the mod. I am sure it will atract a lot more people as well since we came to this mod for new levels and such and not the same old **** from regualr Bf2. There really is no point to play the mod is if we get all the same vehicle dominated maps that we hated then in regular Bf2 to only hate even more in PRMM. This will also stop the constant vote maps as well.

At least give it a try.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-02 03:19

My fault, the first choice should be to keep in Dragon, Kubra, Fushe, Dalin, Daquin Oil and not taking it out since it means the same as number 2.

Post by **JS.Fortnight.A** » 2006-03-02 03:21

I am the all powerful poll 'keeping in' text adder

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-02 03:37

Do you think you could fix it?

Sgt.Sappo · Post by **Sgt.Sappo** » 2006-03-02 03:44

I would be happy with the city fighting maps (read karkand) and oasis, maybe a few others.

other than that its all vehicle fodder.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-03-02 03:55

Maps like Zatar Wetlands and Steel Thunder, are also, specifically, only real fun with 16 people.

It would be nice to see a rotation of Oasis-Strike at Karkand-Steel Thunder(16 player)-Mashtuur City-Zatar Wetlands(16 player, iffy)-Strike at Karkand 2.

That way, if people wanted to play something else for a change, like a game of Kubra Dam, then they could vote for that!.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-02 03:59

EON_MagicMan wrote:Maps like Zatar Wetlands and Steel Thunder, are also, specifically, only real fun with 16 people.

It would be nice to see a rotation of Oasis-Strike at Karkand-Steel Thunder(16 player)-Mashtuur City-Zatar Wetlands(16 player, iffy)-Strike at Karkand 2.

That way, if people wanted to play something else for a change, like a game of Kubra Dam, then they could vote for that!.

Which will never happen. Good idea, but taking them off completely would be good since most people wouldn't want to play them and if they did, they could ask here like I am. We would also have a horrible string of long and boring maps if we had them all last in order.

Lets wait and see how many people vote to keep only those maps on suggested.

acadiancrusader · Post by **acadiancrusader** » 2006-03-02 05:25

how about heavily modifying the original maps? add more cover, take away at least half the vehicles?

[BiM]Black7 · Post by **[BiM]Black7** » 2006-03-02 09:24

i say let the server guys deside what maps to be played remember that prmm also adds alot of vehicles and stuff and somep ppl love to ride and play with em..

i like maps with tanks and helos... tho adding planes is abit to much..

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-03-02 10:26

This is an excellent poll!!! I am all for removing/modifiying the vanilla maps!

One thing though, GUlf of Oman is a prety nice 32 player size map as well.

Get rid of those real stinkers guys (Kubra Damn 64P, Dalian Plant 64P, Daqing Oilfields, Dragon Valley 64P, Fushe Pass 64P) PRMM would be much better off.

Peter-SAS · Post by **Peter-SAS** » 2006-03-02 14:36

Well with regards to some of the awful maps like Fushe pass. I've just set them to 16 player maps and they play better imo.

Infact, Daqing Oilfields on 16 player AAS, is perfect IMO.

I love city maps as much as the next person, but I really like a change to greenery and different terrain.

Of course, we need to weed out stuff like Kubra Dam 64

Just don't toss out the maps without looking at the 16 player maps. I think Daqing Oilfields may well suprise you. Especially the firefights when taking the Old City. You'll also know that Zatar Wetlands isn't bad at all on the smaller variants, particularly when compared to the gameplay on vanilla

casualtyUR · Post by **casualtyUR** » 2006-03-02 16:47

-SOF, are these map boring because you arent "pwning" people every 5 seconds? You need 30 kills in one round? How about defending in "oilfields" with a AT weapon and waiting for armour, only to see 4 or 5 tanks?
-AT weapons are available, using them in squad will counter the vehicle the problem.
-With jets, helo bail out of you hear a plane or copter and reenter after they leave.
-(flame part) You and people like you only want to practice one style map, so that you all can become kings of the room. Or is it, that you hate being killed, complaining about "no cover" type maps? Find cover, or do need cover all the way to door step, steel thunder?
-These map provide a different strategy, maybe a different weapon.
-Personally, all the maps are fun trying to figuring out how to defeat the enemy with a good squad.
-If the room or whole team has no teamwork, you will lose. Making small CQC will not force teamwork, except for the unintentional cover provided by the small map.
-SOF, buy a server and play Karkland all day long, i enjoy the respite of having the think about what my squad is doing and how to capture or across the map.
-PRMM or Gloryhounds, please dont remove these map, they provide different styles of fighting and have excellent scenery. LOL
-... and my kill ratio is low, but to try to win and do it with strategies.
casualtyUR

Wesh · Post by **Wesh** » 2006-03-02 18:03

I don't like playing the 64 and some 32 maps. (reminds me too much of bf2 tbh)
It's boring and when all those vehicles/planes/choppers are around.
There's definitely missing out the infantry combat which is really what Reality Mod's potential is IMO.

- Note I'm not that guy that only wants infantry combat all the way. I actually like steel of thunder 64. Because I think it's balanced. You can easily hide from the tanks and take em' with an AT.

But cmon Kubra Dam 64 = go play bf2

But at the end I'm not sure if they should be removed, after all It's just megabytes and bandwidth. And I think people should have there liberty to play what map they want to play in PRMM (even though many is probably thinking that it is not the way PRMM should be played?) - But that's why servers are diffrent.

casualtyUR · Post by **casualtyUR** » 2006-03-02 19:15

Can any of you state, why it's boring?
You capture scenes, shoot people and things, why so boring?
So, it may take 2 whole minute to run across the WHOLE MAP; time yourself.
Is it that half the people are not crowded within your screen sizing for you to shoot at?
If it so boring; make it more complex yourself!
casualtyUR

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-03-02 19:31

casualtyUR wrote:Can any of you state, why it's boring?
You capture scenes, shoot people and things, why so boring?
So, it may take 2 whole minute to run across the WHOLE MAP; time yourself.
Is it that half the people are not crowded within your screen sizing for you to shoot at?
If it so boring; make it more complex yourself!
casualtyUR

It's boring because there is really very little squad play. Either, you split up into vehicles and communicate trying to cover different areas of the map, or, as an infantry squad, you try to make your way to the base you're supposed to capture, and abotu half way there, the bases shift again. Not to mention, even WITH and anti-tank, tank shells and APC rounds travel faster than a hand-held missile, not to mention they have zoom on their side, so, since these maps are often SO ginormous with little cover (think creeping along the side of the hill on Dragon Valley, headed from the island to the woodyard, NO COVER AT ALL), you run a whole bunch, get chewed up by an APC, repeat.

Small arms see little combat against other small arms (although both sides have infantry, the maps are so big, they rarely meet), Anti-Tankers barely get their rounds off, and that leaves armor. As we all know, there isn't enough armor for everyone!

So, the 3-4 people in jets have a blast, Armor has a decent time (that depends on how much fun the jets are having, bombing about), helicoptors don't make it anywhere, and infantry runs around. Combine that with a 30 second spawn time, and THAT'S why it's boring.

I think you're alone on this one, casualtyUR.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-03-02 20:43

I would honestly have no problem with all the vehicles, if they didnt respawn every 30 fucking seconds...

that just makes no sense.... and turns the battle into a spam fest, and not an actual tactical battle, where destroying an armies assets actually mean something..

instead it just means, you will need to fight that tank again in 30 seconds from now, so you better find some cover.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-03-02 20:51

Taken from my thread in the Suggestions forum, since I feel it's appropriate, and want it to get noticed:

EON_MagicMan wrote:I'd like to bring up the idea of losing the Jeeps in the 16-player version (Kind of like vehicles were removed from Oasis).

Any real squad player knows that having the jeeps is a bad idea, because it:

a)Splits up the squad (considering the Jeeps have 3 slots)
b)Attacking squads have little chance to defend against them, and if there is poor/no defense, they have to turn tail just to keep those 1-3 guys from capping the base behind you!

I know it's fast, and handy, but seriously, the real battles aren't when one side's choked up on either bridge. The real battles are in that large forested area on the east side of the map!

Because of Jeeps, one side often finds away to cap both bases pretty soon in the map, and from there on, it is very difficult to swim/cross the bridge to recap.

I'd rather that if a team snuck by, they would do it on foot, forcing squads to move in lines.

I had a very fun game yesterday, when me and the whole squad led by 00SoldierofFortune00 were being stocked by a whole enemy squad as we snuck by. The fight carried on to the rear flank of their base, with us moving, yet still firing back at them and using smoke for cover, and them chasing us.

Eventually, things went to hell and they got our squad.

What does everybody think? I really think Jeeps make those oh-so-fun battles in the forest rarer, and they generally force the fighting to a slaughter on the bridge-- it's not fun to be on the giving end or the receiving end.

PLEASE CONSIDER THIS SUGGESTION!

I'm sure myself and others would greatly appreciate it! The map is SO good already, but often times, the battle sucks just because 2 guys snuck through on a Jeep.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-03 00:49

casualtyUR wrote:-SOF, are these map boring because you arent "pwning" people every 5 seconds? You need 30 kills in one round? How about defending in "oilfields" with a AT weapon and waiting for armour, only to see 4 or 5 tanks?
-AT weapons are available, using them in squad will counter the vehicle the problem.
-With jets, helo bail out of you hear a plane or copter and reenter after they leave.
-(flame part) You and people like you only want to practice one style map, so that you all can become kings of the room. Or is it, that you hate being killed, complaining about "no cover" type maps? Find cover, or do need cover all the way to door step, steel thunder?
-These map provide a different strategy, maybe a different weapon.
-Personally, all the maps are fun trying to figuring out how to defeat the enemy with a good squad.
-If the room or whole team has no teamwork, you will lose. Making small CQC will not force teamwork, except for the unintentional cover provided by the small map.
-SOF, buy a server and play Karkland all day long, i enjoy the respite of having the think about what my squad is doing and how to capture or across the map.
-PRMM or Gloryhounds, please dont remove these map, they provide different styles of fighting and have excellent scenery. LOL
-... and my kill ratio is low, but to try to win and do it with strategies.
casualtyUR

Man, I can really tell you are a dickhead. For one, I could careless if I get the top of the charts because I am all about the squad play which is why I am playing this mod more then regular BF2. You don't even get stats, so why would I be in it for that? I also hate Karkand in regualr BF2 because it is just a place for getting points etc. and avoid it as much as I can on regualr Bf2 even though I admit I did play it a lot when the game came out. I can already tell that you are a guy that is not really a teamplayer because if you were, you would relise how off balance these maps really are.

They provide different style my ***. I am all for having them toned down to 16 player version to see what happens, but all the open ones are about is running through open fields only to be moved down by a tank or bombed by a jet and then wait half a minute in order to spawn to have it happen again. They are also a ring around the rosy type deal since we always lose a flag half way to another and then have to walk a mile back. I really like parts of Daquin Oilfields like the old city and the wooded areas, but the 32/64 player ones don't encourage fighting there really since the map is so huge squads will never meet there which I though this mod was all about.

Having squads fight it out in a realistic military manner is what the mod is all about, and when you have 3 pieces of armor camping across the map, you cannot do anything with your squad even with AT.

If you haven't noticed yet with your head so far up your *** casualty, vanilla BF2 levels were made with vehicles in mind and they dominate every level in the game with the exception of Karkand(tanks still dominate in vanilla), Shaqi, and Mastuur. These levels descrease reliance on teamwork since everyone jumps in an apc or car and the squad goes its seperate ways. In a map like Steel Thunder or Oasis, you can stay with your squad without worry about one of them ramboing in a car alone only to get killed.

Now, I am all for vehicle combat, but I think tanks or cars should spawn much less and have longer times so it increases your chances of all going in a squad. The flags take a long time to cap unlike VBF2, and I would rather take my chances on foot with my squad ANY DAY, other then rambo it in an apc or car with 3 guys and hope to get the flag. There should be more enphasis on keeping squads together so they can work together instead of spliting them up with vehicles and the like. You would also have more people to defend the flag since enemies come quicker rather then in the massive maps where you defend and really don't expect an enemy to ever come so everyone goes off and then it is capped by a lucky effort.

O, and I can care less really if my team loses as long as we have some good, fun battles during the game which is hard to come by in those massive levels.

O, and by the number of votes for the maps I suggest, it seems you are out of touch. The people that voted to keep the maps the same are either VBF2 players new to the mod, or vehicle whores. Changing them to 16 player versions or modding in new cover will encourage much more teamwork and squadplay. Everyone on the server always vote maps and they always miss out by a few votes, so this basically shows that the majority of people are in favor of what I said above.

Braddock096 · Post by **Braddock096** » 2006-03-03 01:10

I think any 64 size map is too big for PRMM.

IMO PR needs maps half as small again as the number of people playing [i.e 64 peeps, 32 map... 32 peeps 16 map etc]

Kubra 16 pwnz.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-03 02:33

Also, hats off to Martin and his squad who completely decimated my squad with a nice flanking maneur which I have never seen before. If it was planned or not, it was how every squad should play PRMM.

Level Suggestions

Should the large 32 player maps be removed?

Level Suggestions