Score based kit limiting & mandatory vehicle crew

[bad_nade]

Hello All!

Here is my conribution to the suggestions gallery. Dunno if these are doable, but if they are, I think they might help making PR even more team work based.

The first one is score based kit limiting. Player would need certain amout of (team play?) points before he/she could request any of the limited kits. More point for some kits, less for others. Just being a squad member wouldn't be enough, you must also play as squad. So if you don't like team work, you stuck with regular kits.

Second one is mandatory crew for heavy vehicles and possibly for aircrafts too. That is, tanks, apc's, choppers etc, wouldn't even move or be able to shoot if there are not at least driver and gunner inside. If someone try to solo crew a heavy vehicle, he/she would just get an announcement "you can't operate this vehicle alone".

[squall6677]

nice idea, i would like to see this work, although im not totally in favour of points scoring.

the vehicle idea is also good as it encourages squads to take a vehicle as back up (and 1337 MrT can no longer solo a tank)

but to see it implemented might mean a lot of work, who knows if this will be implemented, but yeah thumbs up

[markonymous]

i agree with the second one but absolutely not with the first one. Why should there be kit limiting by points theres no point. If anything it was make teamwork harder since the SL cant have any kits he needs for his squad in the beginning.

[Maxfragg]

another idea, what if we would use a system like alternate battleranking to let people earn special badges, that provide access to the limited kits (something similiar to amerikas army), could really be cool if this would be possible and it would make sence, that only people who had prooven that they can fly in PR get a pilot kit

[Rudd]

I believe, except perhaps a mandatory gunner in a chopper before you can take off.

You have ur chopper, with several passengers, then ur gunner or gets shot...

I fully agree with the tanks/apcs needing two ppl. It would nerf them ever so slightly, and improve teamplay.

[Enderjmu]

I fully agree with the tanks/apcs needing two ppl. It would nerf them ever so slightly, and improve teamplay.

APCs/Tanks is a YES
not so sure about attack choppers... haven't seen them much...

another idea, what if we would use a system like alternate battleranking to let people earn special badges, that provide access to the limited kits (something similiar to amerikas army), could really be cool if this would be possible and it would make sence, that only people who had prooven that they can fly in PR get a pilot kit

I wonder if EA allows you to rent master servers... but how to fly originally? hmm? How to Earn the badge?

[Rudd]

That quote was about it being a resuggestion.

soz dude, my bad

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

I like the first idea because it would reduce the CS game type element of every match where the first 5 mins of a game decides so much of who will win, ie. rushing with HAT

Also if you teamkill or just generally suck then the kit becomes available to any player not just the guy who last used it and so has the inside knowledge of exactly when it respawns

Would be nice to see less of 1 guy crashing the same helicopter 3 times in a row.
Minus teamwork points are still given for wasting an asset or vehicle but it has no actual effect beyond that at present.


Random spawns/respawns would help make the game less predictable in general. That would be amazing if possible but my guess is it not possible or it'd be like that allready ala counterstrike mode

[bad_nade]

as organised militaries train with all the weapons available they would be able to be used right from the start. So its actually unrealistic.

Thank you for your opinions. However, I see it just the other way: trained or not, still every walking cannon-fodder out there on the real world starts from the bottom. Or at least should start, IMHO. Handling and positioning that 50 cal anti-material rifle or successfully engaging enemy assets with heavy AT requires both technical & tactical skills that must be "learn[t] by the numbers". That is, real weapons and equipment have learning curve too. Normally soldiers are trained only for one task and if they want to start doing something else, there is always some extra training involved. This learing curve could be simulated using score based limiting.

As for the second one it should be possible to get your tank to safety if the driver/gunner gets disconnected. But I do agree with not being able to shoot if there is only one person. This has already been suggeted I believe, except perhaps a mandatory gunner in a chopper before you can take off.

Sometimes even healthy looking people die/get incapacitated or planes crash without an obvious reason. It could be a heart attack, technical failure or just mind collapsing under heavy stress. Life aint fair. Not to mention about the war.

I agree that the line between entertaining computer game and uncompromising war simulation must be drawn somewhere, but hey! that's why we are having this conversation Let the discussion continue!

[bad_nade]

If anything it was make teamwork harder since the SL cant have any kits he needs for his squad in the beginning.

There are already features, that require squad-level team play. SL needs at least two additional squad members in order to be able to request officer kit. Also setting up rally point takes SL plus two members, and it usually requires verbal communication too - in form of either VOIP or squad chat. So this would be just a small addition to it. Something, that would encourage patience and team work.

And what becomes to needful kits, my opinion is that the most important equipment in the early moments of a round is not machine gun, anti tank, or sniper rifle. No. The most important tool is shovel. Period. And you don't need limited kit for that. I acknowledge the inevitable chicken-and-egg dilemma involved in limiting officer kit, but its more like parametrization problem than politics.

Naturally this limiting would effect the enemy too (go wonder... )

[PFunk]

I find it ironic that someone mentioned the limited score kit idea as a way to combat CS style play when in reality CS already has the proposed score limited kit system. In CS the best players buy the best guns and the crappy players have the crappiest guns and when you finally save up enough to buy that M4 you die in 3 seconds cause some *** has had the AWP for 8 rounds straight and you're back to your MP5 and 1 flashbang.

Punishing and controlling soldiers on an individual basis would seriously negate the effectiveness of squads, as someone already said, because squads wouldn't have all the weapons they need.

I am vehemently opposed to any score based kit limiting. Also makes me think of C0D4.

[bad_nade]

You would have it straight from the base though. As this is a game the respawn represents different soldiers, not the same one (as has been said many times, if it represented the same soldier there would be serious consequences related to time and parallel universes). So perhaps a different way could be to allow only one kit per life, with certain provisions if you slip and get the wrong one.

I see your point. But there are already time and parallel universe problems present: the consciousness in control of that newly spawned soldier is still the same, and he/she do have inner knowledge of the situation that real world newcomer would not have. Or, like help desk grunts would say: "problem exists between keyboard and chair". So basically we're back in square one, drawing lines between reality and simulating things uncommon way.

But as always, any conversation is good. The more controversial, the better.

[Deadmonkiefart]

First suggestion seems doable. However, at the beginning of the game(first 1-3 minutes), I think that all kits should be made available for all players. The second suggestion seems unrealistic and overly restricting.

[bad_nade]

My #1 excuse for having a bad game:

"GET-OFF-OF-MY-KEYBOARD-YOU-STUPID-CAT!!!"

I feel your pain, comrade Can't kill them, can't live without them

[bad_nade]

Anyway, I believe treating all plyers as equals while being very forgiving for the mistakes which undoughtedly arise is better than having an 'elite' as vBF2 does. It allows all player, regardless of experiance, to be just as effective if in the right place no matter how long they have been playing. And that extending this to 'no matter how long the server has been playing' is also good for gameplay.

Those are good points indeed, and I should have had taken them in consideration more carefully. It really is quite hard to find other ways to encourage team work than doing it verbally over VOIP or chat during game play. Any other methods tend to be more punishing than rewarding.

Well, at least I tried Thanks for listening!