Give the Medic Class Scopes

[Rudd]

i agree, give 'em shovels. Every soldier has to dig his own trench to sleep in right?

there was a conflict with the medic bag, in testing.

Black-wolf, you're a funny guy

From what I'm reading here scopes could work if one/all or some of this happens:

medic becomes requestable (sad for me, but I'll live)
the way we heal is completely altered, refer to previous posts cuz that complicated. (something like medics cannot heal 100%, evac for full heal)
self healing is removed

This tells me that this would require major testing, with 0.8 on the way don't expect this to be done by the devs. Would have to be a community project. Cool discussion however

[Maxfragg]

maybe we could split them into 2 versions, a corpsman without shockpaddels but with scope and a requestable one with ironsights and shockpaddels ?

[Maxfragg]

well, if we want it realistc, a real fieldmedic would have no rifle at all and would have a redcross on the helment, everyone else is a corpsman, so this 2 groops exist in most armys
(since the international warefare laws say, that medics with a red cross are forbitten to have weapons, but on the other hand, should also not be shooten at them

[jerkzilla]

Idea:
Do something similar to how the engineers worked in 0.5 or 0.6 when they got shotguns for CQC and rifles for longer ranges.
Give medics scopes for scale 2 and 4 maps and iron sights for any smaller map. Or use the unlock system.
Anyway, as far as I can tell, most people saying that medics should be a dedicated support role would like to see a Team Fortress style all-specialist team. Now, for gameplay, sure that may work, however, I think it's just too far from the realism aspect and also in practically every mil sim + America's Army, the medic is not "nerfed" in terms of combat ability compared to the usual rifleman. The advantage is simple: you get more people involved in a firefight. Which is pretty good considering Battlefield 2 squads are only six man strong at best.
I still say remove the self healing ability. The medic gets 3 field dressings which can be resupplied off the riflemen and the many other sources of ammo.
Also, aren't the "medics" in game actually combat life savers and foreign equivalents?

[Outlawz7]

There are not enough people in a squad to have anyone who can't be dedicated to killing. Just make the medic and engineer kit request-able, no more search and destroy engineering. And who the hell heard of a squad level engineer anyways that can't build things? Just have rifleman as the basic kit, then make everything request-able. Doesn't even need to be limited really.

Actually, just keep them as default and requestable at the same time, so I don't have to get my whole squad killed, so someone can respawn as engineer/medic because there's no other way to get it once you swapped it for something else.

[Rudd]

(since the international warefare laws say, that medics with a red cross are forbitten to have weapons, but on the other hand, should also not be shooten at them

Well, I posted a pic of a combat medic carrying a SA80 with a SUSAT scope on a little while ago, and I doubt that taliban/insurgents read the rules of engagement. I expect the rights of the medic not to be shot at havent been respected in quite a while, people even took advantage of the 'rules' e.g. putting military assets next to field hospitals etc. But I don't know if people have done that since korea. In any case, I expect those rules were practically done away with after WW2.

International law also says we cant use 50cal sniper rifles, unless the target is standing behind something

[General_J0k3r]

get self-healing out and scope in and i'm happy

[Maxfragg]

if they could eliminate selfhealing fully I'm sure they would

[MAINERROR]

Why not just leave everything like it is now ....

[CAS_117]

Why not just leave everything like it is now ....

I'm sure that took you a lot of time to come up with. Good work.

[Natala]

Agree with the above, it's fine the way it is.

This topic has been discussed to death, and I am amazed the forum guys didn't just lock it and link people to the other 10 times it has been brought up.

Why can't some people accept that some people actually -like- Ironsight, and wish to have it as an option, and prefer it in certain combat situations.

We have already established again and again that in the real army Medic's use both, scope and Ironsight. And the PR devs have said that since they can't make Medic's swap between the two, they gave them Ironsight.

And we have all thrown in our views on -game balance- for and against. Some feel Medics should be similar to that of riflemen, and some feel that it would encourage players to be "Ramboing" (or "Lonewolfing") rather than being support, and giving medics Ironsight (which is excellent in close combat) encourage teamwork. (From a game point of view.)

(and SoldierofFortune, regarding you picking on me for using the term "Ramboing" rather than "Lonewolfing", it depends entirely on what your gaming background is. In some old FPS games, "Ramboing" was used and still used, and not only in a positive terms as it does imply a player rushing off on his own, successful or not, Ramboing and Lonewolfing, it is the same thing depending on what your gaming background is, I think everybody gets the picture.

I am a Doom, Duke Nukem, Counterstrike kind of girl, my game terms might at times get a bit oldschool.)

[turnpipe]

If he means the irons sights I'd tend to a agree. Hard to hit a target that is as big as the aimer you're using.

Yea, the Iron sights.

[DeltaFart]

How about a compromise, they make two kits up for each class, like the riflemen, just for the basic ones, but the scoped ones have to lose something to balance out havinga scope, like say a scoped engy wont have a mine or c4 or something like that, a scoped medic wont have the defrib

[00SoldierofFortune00]

I will bring the issue down to one thing.
With scopes you have one job, to locate and kill the enemy. This is NOT the medics primary job.

Giving them sights will make them way more inclined to doing the job of a rifleman than they already are.

Read this quote. Makes perfect sense.

[quote=""ReaperMAC"]The best way for a medic to prevent his buddies from getting wounded/killed is to kill the enemy before they are able to hurt his squad mates. +1 on the scopes![/quote]

A scope is just going to allow the medic to deal with enemies from long range quicker so that he can actually run for the person in the middle of the road without having to throw down smoke or having that person killed time and time again so that he has to keep coming back.

Medics do need to put their weight into the firefight, but their focus should be those enemies and friends that are close to them.
If you are not healing you should be watching to see where your squad are, and familiarising yourself with their voices so you can be straight to them if they go down, and reminding them where you will be if they need aid.

Medics should be healing, if you need a scope your squad aren't doing their job, and if you are shooting at distant enemies with injured squadmates or other members of your team around you aren't doing your job -as- a medic.

On balance there are reasons, i.e. if your squadmember was killed at long range by a marksman and you are isolated in a long-range ambush against an enemy, BUT a medic should not find themselves in that position, and would be better advised to re-org somewhere sensible and safer, as a medic should not create a high likelihood of a second casualty when attending to someone injured.

You cannot always prevent ambushes, or being shot at by snipers/marksman from long ranges, etc. That's why the medic/corpsman should be equipped with an optic so that he can help deal with those threats from long range if his whole squad is taken out. Would a Corpsman in real life just sit there and say "I am not going to get you because it is not safe!" No, they would go for them.

Hey Fortune I'm all for it assuming that the get rid of those godawful shock paddles.

Than this game would turn into CSS because of no revives.

That has been talked about in the past, but that is a compromise for realism in order to have more fun. Unless you find it fun to know you have no chance at all of respawning when you are killed. I know you or someone will say "it is more intense", but it will be like conventional armies turning into the insurgency basically. They need something over the insurgency besides just the field dressings.



[quote="Natala""]Agree with the above, it's fine the way it is.

This topic has been discussed to death, and I am amazed the forum guys didn't just lock it and link people to the other 10 times it has been brought up.

Why can't some people accept that some people actually -like- Ironsight, and wish to have it as an option, and prefer it in certain combat situations.

We have already established again and again that in the real army Medic's use both, scope and Ironsight. And the PR devs have said that since they can't make Medic's swap between the two, they gave them Ironsight.[/quote]

Scopes are better even on CQB maps like Sunset though. Even if you go through a long alley on Sunset, the chances of you being taken out from far down that alley is more likely than you getting up close where your ironsights would work better.



In a perfect world, the PR medics/corpsman would always be covered by their squad members and suppressive fire would be given and no one would be ambushed. But I know all of you just like me have that those WTF! moments when you have a random nade thrown at you or are shot at by a sniper from long range or LAT and when you depend on the medic to heal you, he acts more like bait for the enemy squad than an actual life saver. How many times has everyone here waited for the medic to come out of cover and run for the downed man, with or without smoke? I know everyone here has done it before and even with smoke, they are pretty easy targets. A scope would just give them the extra advantage of keeping the enemies heads down while he goes to medic or moves out of cover.



Face it, even without a scope, a lot of medics who "do their job" by some of the definitions here are more like bait and easy kills than actual life savers. Would you rather have a medic who took the enemy out from long range first then came to med you with 10 seconds left or the medic who popped smoke, ran out to get you, revived you, ran back, but you were naded, ran back out to get you, than you were shot through the smoke, and than back again and eventually went down as well???

[CAS_117]

The only advantage insurgents have is fast respawn nubbery. I usually just ignore rally points, but firebases are ok. Still, if an enemy is within 20m of a spawn I'd like it to be disabled, because people popping out of a bag and/or a pile of sandbags.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

The only advantage insurgents have is fast respawn nubbery. I usually just ignore rally points, but firebases are ok. Still, if an enemy is within 20m of a spawn I'd like it to be disabled, because people popping out of a bag and/or a pile of sandbags.

No, in the PR Tournament we played on Fool's Road twice and on Fool's Road as Militia, we lost twice. Reason? Tickets. Without reviving capabilities, the Militia/Insurgents lose tickets fast and unless you go on a strict defense, you are usually going to end up down in tickets against the UK as Militia. Of course Insurgents have unlimitied tickets, but the concept is the same, so you get the point.

It would be stupid to disable a spawn if they were within 20 feet of it. All someone would have to do is rush to it to get within 20 feet, stop the others from spawning and take it out. If that is your squad's spawnpoint they are using for defense, than you are screwed. What about XQB maps like Sunset City where there is pretty much someone on every part or surrounding part of the city area 24/7?

It also takes no skill to get within 20 feet of a rally. Get in a vehicle, rush within distance, or crawl up to one in high grass and it automatically stops the spawners. I don't care if firebases and RPs are cartoony, no military force would just give up their position like that without a fight.


It is fine the way it is now because it actually takes skill and teamwork to destory because you have to expose yourself, get right up to it, and if the other squad really wants their spawn, they will fight for it. By taking out their rally, you basically cut off their reinforcements, so it should be a fight to he death, not an easy win.

Someone spawncamping the rally? Easy, don't spawn there. That is much better than being forced to spawn somewhere else cus of a stupid restriction.

[DeadboyUSMC]

Give 'em scopes. Soldier o' Fortune's views are close enough to my own, I endorse his product.

[Hfett]

If the medics receive scope, no one will play being a Rifleman since we can all be the ubber self regenerating scoped medic.