What do people want in maps apart from fricking lazors

space · Post by **space** » 2008-05-01 23:43

Im just starting out making a map and I wondered what other people would like to see in maps. We all know everyone wants opsreys/chinnocks/lazors/metal storm cannons/fastropes etc, but i mean more of the enviromental stuff.
The intention is not to put down the current maps, as the engine has limitatons and we cant have everything ( most maps are fing amazing ). I just want a better idea of what other people think.
I have my own list of things that id like to see, but it would be interesting to see what other people think and also to critise what I think.

1. Lack of a battlefield/war feeling

Not true on all the maps, but some seem just too sterile. ( remember big maps cant have too much on them but I mean more burning wrecks etc )

2. Lack of enviromental sounds.

Every village is deserted ( after all cant have civilains ) but I think dogs barking and such like would really add to the atmosphere.

3. Maps are "too tidy"

Hard to explain but some maps dont have enough natural randomness. Vehicles spawn in lines and suchlike ( again remember the static object limitations etc )

4.Not enough natural awesomeness.

Theres few big mountains, or dramatic valleys. ( Remember that small maps cant have much of this and big maps means less maps ) but archer is a step in the right direction imo.

5. No large military complexes.

We seem to fight over alot of small huts rather than villages. obviously theres only 64 plays max, but most RL battles are over more stratigic places. For example you could have a 4km map over a single base and that would be very realistic.

Thats my list. repaeat - MY list.

PS I know you can point out " yeah but what about whatever on whatever map" but I just want a general feel for what people want, to up the realism ( on the atmosphere side rather than hardware ). Ive been in squads with a few PR noobs the last few days and they all said how atmospheric it was ( which is why I got hooked, but then you take it for granted after a while ) but I think so much more could be done! What do you guys think/suggest?

burghUK · Post by **burghUK** » 2008-05-01 23:47

more open areas surrounded by trees perfect for ambushes , maybe a field in the open area with thick foliage.

space · Post by **space** » 2008-05-02 00:03

crAck_sh0t wrote:more open areas surrounded by trees perfect for ambushes , maybe a field in the open area with thick foliage.

Yeah Rhinos foliage skills really add to the atmosphere in maps I find. When you really have to look to see people its great.

Cyrax-Sektor · Post by **Cyrax-Sektor** » 2008-05-02 00:03

As an aspiring map maker myself as well, I've been thinking about what would make a map real . . .

-Signs of life. On urban maps, people were in the buildings. A television here, a pack of smokes or a vase (all can be found in the Editor) would make some structures stand out a little more. In a rural area, you would find fish stands, fruit vendors, and maybe a wheelbarrow and well for their water supply.

-Improvising. Combining structures to make them look like new buildings. The current PR maps did a good job of using statics to look like something else. On Mestia, once wooden bridges are now the makeup of the warehouse. Some cement bunkers, walls and barbwire make a practical fort at West and East Tower. Making do with what you have to give the illusion.

-Cover. From the wooden table penetrable by .50 cal fire to large metal containers, we want something to hide behind. And depending on the combat zone, cover could be a plenty, urban environments, forests to almost no cover, deserts, wide-open spaces. It's like watching a movie seeing units dart from plant pot to trash can. This adds realism and fun IMO.

-Apaches. Talk about a map, and one person will say "put in an Apache". They're cool in so many ways, but will they fit on your map? Will there be a balance with thirty-two Insurgents versus a high-flying attack helicopter manned by two, armed with AP and AV prowess? Maybe the urban combat with all of the alleys and turns could make the addition of the Apache a little fair.

space · Post by **space** » 2008-05-02 00:13

Cyrax-Sektor wrote:As an aspiring map maker myself as well, I've been thinking about what would make a map real . . .

-Signs of life. On urban maps, people were in the buildings. A television here, a pack of smokes or a vase (all can be found in the Editor) would make some structures stand out a little more. In a rural area, you would find fish stands, fruit vendors, and maybe a wheelbarrow and well for their water supply.

-Improvising. Combining structures to make them look like new buildings. The current PR maps did a good job of using statics to look like something else. On Mestia, once wooden bridges are now the makeup of the warehouse. Some cement bunkers, walls and barbwire make a practical fort at West and East Tower. Making do with what you have to give the illusion.

-Cover. From the wooden table penetrable by .50 cal fire to large metal containers, we want something to hide behind. And depending on the combat zone, cover could be a plenty, urban environments, forests to almost no cover, deserts, wide-open spaces. It's like watching a movie seeing units dart from plant pot to trash can. This adds realism and fun IMO.

-Apaches. Talk about a map, and one person will say "put in an Apache". They're cool in so many ways, but will they fit on your map? Will there be a balance with thirty-two Insurgents versus a high-flying attack helicopter manned by two, armed with AP and AV prowess? Maybe the urban combat with all of the alleys and turns could make the addition of the Apache a little fair.

I like your thinking

you might like this if youve not already found it :

FilePlanet: Battlefield 2 - Editor Object Guide

its a pdf of all the statics and SO many could be used for other things.

PS when I said a heli map I meant light helis. I like infantry and I like helis so thats what Im going for. Might not be to everyones liking though!

fartknocker12345 · Post by **fartknocker12345** » 2008-05-02 00:33

please make another "jungle style" map. Ghost train is a good example, and it has proven to be one of the best maps in PR history. I think another would be awesome.

Defiyur · Post by **Defiyur** » 2008-05-02 00:44

Yeah all the suggestions are excellent. I'm not familiar with bf2 editor so I have no friggin clue about what it can and can't do. I do (did) know unreal ed pretty well though... But anyway in addition to all the great suggestions think about having a scenario in a severe weather situation such as a sandstorm or rainstorm or snowstorm (again I don't know what bf2 can do so). Another idea is to have "vertical" fighting tall urban buildings some of them completely enterable/destroyable kinda like a siege/stronghold type gameplay. Just some ideas

space · Post by **space** » 2008-05-02 00:47

fartknocker12345 wrote:please make another "jungle style" map. Ghost train is a good example, and it has proven to be one of the best maps in PR history. I think another would be awesome.

Yeah thats one of Rhinos afaik. Im often a SL and when you have to tell your sq "crawl over this ridge just in case" or "scan the area with your scopes" it really adds to the atmosphere I find. I think Rhino has the smallish foliage maps thing pretty much covered, and theres a few good city maps as well. The problem I find is the bigger maps where it lacks the atmosphere, unless youre an armour whore or jet boy tearing up the infantry. Im hoping to find a balance, which is what Im aiming for on my map. But then maybe the above mentioned will hate it? Ive played Kashan a few times on servers where its transport helis and light vehicles only, and I found it made the game so much better. In some ways my map will be a green Kashan in the same style - do you think I care if some people dont like that?

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-05-02 00:52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3oQG8xXcos[/youtube]

ir0n_ma1den · Post by **ir0n_ma1den** » 2008-05-02 00:55

^ beatiful.

space · Post by **space** » 2008-05-02 01:08

Ive noticed the kharta thread this week ( ill have to dl it for "inspiration"

) but I noticed him saying it ran slowly ( and thats on local server ) so it seems you can make nice eye candy but then it runs like shite. Compromises or thinking outside the box is what is required im thinking, so thats why I was asking what you guys want most really.

flem615 · Post by **flem615** » 2008-05-02 01:47

i enjoy urban environments the most, like al basrah. make some maps like that. with a coalition base and a large urban complex containing a hostile force like insurgents, malitia, or an organized army

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2008-05-02 02:02

I definitely with the natural awesomeness bit. Not really a lot of maps with some cool terrain features. I love the giant mountain on Archer that players can climb. Had some good moments on the U.S building a firebase up there, and raining hell on the nearby village.

What I'd like to see is some more unique aspects. Like a mountain with a footpath, and a guaranteed death if you manage to fall off. I'd also like to see something like bridges play a crucial role in maneuvering around a map. Not so much just one river with a bridge or two (Like Qwai), but an elaborate network of bridges that cross over rivers, between ridges etc.

Creating interesting underground areas would be cool too. For example, as much as I hate this map Hills of Hamgyong has an interesting "bunker", where the construction site static is buried into the ground. Or the mine on Qwai River is a pretty cool design as well. Caches you find under buildings on Al Basrah and Op. Archer are also interesting. They make good hiding spots.

When it comes to urban maps, I'd like to see much more added to them. Not just your average block for block city, but I'd like to see more congested alleyways, fenced off areas, dead ends, and more overall destruction. I really liked the atmosphere "street" had despite being a small map.

Also, lots of breach able doors and such to give engineers the opportunity to make use of their shotgun, and to allow for barricades. For example, the village in Road to Kyogani has lots of those wooden barricades on the entrances, I'd personally like to see a lot more of that. Another thing I like are the barricades. The Mine on Qwai River has a destroyable and repairable door that can help aid in a defense. Though my personal favorite is the door on the citadel on Seven Gates.

And finally, make CPs generally more defendable. My favorites are the Hilltop Estate from Fool's Road and Mine from Qwai River. Don't fish bowl your CPs. Or at the very least if you do find a way to prevent tanks and other heavy vehicles from sitting on surrounding hills and camping flags. Add natural barriers and defenses to the flags, such as a surrounding fence, or have lots of flat land around it. I like flags that usually have 2 or three main entrances to them, with maybe one or two hidden entrances. By hidden I mean things like the ventilation shafts you find on the bunkers in Kashan. Maybe a small terrain dip in the fence where players can crawl under, etc.

asianator365 · Post by **asianator365** » 2008-05-02 02:47

Choppers, Choppers, Choppers!!! Cannot say that enough. Littlebirds (with miniguns) and Blackhawks. Picture Blackhawk Down. Now picture 3 RPGs max. Humvees and technicals only. Urban. That is what is wanted. Blackhawks, Littlebirds, Humvees, and lots of durkas with small arms in a city with a lot of smoke and places to hide and run.

Deadmonkiefart · Post by **Deadmonkiefart** » 2008-05-02 03:13

'[T wrote:Terranova7;666859']I definitely with the natural awesomeness bit. Not really a lot of maps with some cool terrain features. I love the giant mountain on Archer that players can climb. Had some good moments on the U.S building a firebase up there, and raining hell on the nearby village.

What I'd like to see is some more unique aspects. Like a mountain with a footpath, and a guaranteed death if you manage to fall off. I'd also like to see something like bridges play a crucial role in maneuvering around a map. Not so much just one river with a bridge or two (Like Qwai), but an elaborate network of bridges that cross over rivers, between ridges etc.

Creating interesting underground areas would be cool too. For example, as much as I hate this map Hills of Hamgyong has an interesting "bunker", where the construction site static is buried into the ground. Or the mine on Qwai River is a pretty cool design as well. Caches you find under buildings on Al Basrah and Op. Archer are also interesting. They make good hiding spots.

When it comes to urban maps, I'd like to see much more added to them. Not just your average block for block city, but I'd like to see more congested alleyways, fenced off areas, dead ends, and more overall destruction. I really liked the atmosphere "street" had despite being a small map.

Also, lots of breach able doors and such to give engineers the opportunity to make use of their shotgun, and to allow for barricades. For example, the village in Road to Kyogani has lots of those wooden barricades on the entrances, I'd personally like to see a lot more of that. Another thing I like are the barricades. The Mine on Qwai River has a destroyable and repairable door that can help aid in a defense. Though my personal favorite is the door on the citadel on Seven Gates.

And finally, make CPs generally more defendable. My favorites are the Hilltop Estate from Fool's Road and Mine from Qwai River. Don't fish bowl your CPs. Or at the very least if you do find a way to prevent tanks and other heavy vehicles from sitting on surrounding hills and camping flags. Add natural barriers and defenses to the flags, such as a surrounding fence, or have lots of flat land around it. I like flags that usually have 2 or three main entrances to them, with maybe one or two hidden entrances. By hidden I mean things like the ventilation shafts you find on the bunkers in Kashan. Maybe a small terrain dip in the fence where players can crawl under, etc.

I agree 100%

Post by **motherdear** » 2008-05-02 03:51

what would be pure awesomeness would be a remake of ejod desert, it would be awesome if the city could be expanded and we could get rid of/use the armored vericles differently. just try and imagine the whole ejod are as a valley filled with buildings and hotels etc. and then have the armies march on the street securing it corner for corner until they hit each other and will begin to outflank. there is just so much extra room in the map and so little city that it's rediculois compared to current PR standards (mainly because of it's age and the gameplay changes) i'm not demanding in any way but i'm just throwing it out there i can't do it myself but maybe somebody is up for the challenge.

Post by **CodeRedFox** » 2008-05-02 04:49

I would defendant try and make a map, I've learned allot already with my map and I'm glad I did it.

And Khara is been updated allot, I look at the video and go wow that looked like ****

Deadmonkiefart · Post by **Deadmonkiefart** » 2008-05-02 05:08

'[R-CON wrote:CAS_117;666824']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3oQG8xXcos[/youtube]

Why do the British get all of the good insurgent maps?

Death_dx · Post by **Death_dx** » 2008-05-02 05:13

Night maps!
Bi ming in daytime = me sad

I want a map where bridges actually count (qwai river/bi ming somewhat). Other than that I agree with the more cover thing, I hate seeing two idiots run towards each other only to go prone, then one takes 3 bullets instead of 2 and the other bleeds to death.

Post by **CodeRedFox** » 2008-05-02 05:24

Deadmonkiefart wrote:Why do the British get all of the good insurgent maps?

I'll stop thread jacking after this spacemanc, but my map wont be an "Insurgent map" AKA hunt the WMD. This will be a fight to secure the valley.