damn that fricken SAW

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-03-04 08:26

while it's true that in vBF2 u typically die before running out of ammo, PRMM also mentioned that they intend to make sure they will put more emphasis on staying alive for soldiers than the current trend in vBF2. And assuming u can survive for more than say 5 min in a thick firefight, chances r u will exhaust most of ur ammo by then. I set my M4 to single shot in a hot chokepoint in karkand, and after nailing 11 ppl and spending 3 of my magazine in less than 3 min, i think it's safe to say that u WILL run out of ammo in more than a few circumstances.

Regarding the body armour issue, i really wish there's a better way of handling body armour than the way they do right now. The body armour let me survives 1 or 2 extra rifle bullet in vBF2, which is actually accurate if we're talking about interceptor armour with SAPI plates considering that the earlier model of SAPI plates r fragile and self destruct after taking a direct hit (which is stupid if u ask me). But i wish that they don't put the fall dmg and blast dmg into the same generalized dmg meter. Even if i fall a few metres and broke my leg, that doesn't mean that my armour is now negated and the next bullet should kill me.

Sgt.Sappo · Post by **Sgt.Sappo** » 2006-03-04 08:32

hmm, true that about the armour... but then again i think the bf2 engine is very 'primitive' in the damage department.

damage is damage, hit points are hitpoints.

one of my biggest problems with any game is using hitpoints. but hey... lets all thank EA once again

--

and yea the ammo, i made it sound like it never happens but it does... i have found myself using up all my ammo for my rifle plenty of times this is true, but we need a better system then what we have for ammo replishment.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-03-04 08:58

Sgt.Sappo wrote:one of my biggest problems with any game is using hitpoints. but hey... lets all thank EA once again

I don't know why everybody hates on EA so much. Yes, the last patch was ****, and Vanilla BF2 isn't really suited to our tastes, but the game is still rather complete, and look at what it has made possible!

Good netcode combined with decent physics and the ability for cool effects and vehicles-PRMM wouldn't be here without it.

For that, I thank EA!

Sgt.Sappo · Post by **Sgt.Sappo** » 2006-03-04 09:11

well yes they have given us a good engine to work with etc for mods... but they could have spent that much extra and given us MORE options for the engine... IE damage specifics for everything from infantry to vehicles, and.. hell i dunno
lots of things...

as it is we keep getting these patches that still havent fix near all the problems, and keep introducing more.

i mean, EA's track record is not exactly stellar for good releases, OR listening to the customer.

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-03-04 10:15

EA pretty much tried every single method u can think of to milk money from ppl with minimal content, their sport games franchise lineup was... ughhh... let's just say it was an unpleasant experience. EA??? listening to customer??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.... sure... if u consider listening to 20 mins long automated machine as a customer service... maybe.. just don't expect to get anything usefull out of it.

And after watching what they did with the previous products, it's rather worrying that the trend doesn't seems to stop, instead they r pushing for more. (in another words, ur money is good for them and now they want more of it with even less work). To be honest, when Special forces expansion came out, i was already worried that this is gonna get worse by the minute, and then the booster was announced, and still no patch at the time...

anyway, i saw a number of next gen engine being worked on for FPS coming up, one of them that caught my eye was the Quake enemy territory. To be more specific, it's their specific damage location system that caught my eye, if the game proved to be easy to mod, i'd say that sounds like the perfect tool to bring about the next PRMM incarnation.

USM-ST3.Spyder · Post by **USM-ST3.Spyder** » 2006-03-04 10:22

I dont see you your guys problem with the SAW is. Take a gun and shoot the gunner. I do it everyday with my M-16, its real easy. It only takes .5 seconds and 1 round.

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-03-04 10:50

The only instances I can think of is when using a sniper, i am ALWAYS running dry on ammo before I die. That is a special case though.

Heh, i hate to be on roof top with claymores set to cover my back and run out of ammo.... hehehe .... and no parachute...
Make MGs like medic know, make ammo bags undroppable and remove nades, end of story for me ;]
We can't discuss about how to nerf mgs... they are as they are IRL IMHO...good accuracy and big amount of ammo in the belt...

I am still curious about ammo track.. make ammo trucks. And side that owns the flag near can rearm there...

Eglaerinion · Post by **Eglaerinion** » 2006-03-04 13:37

USM-ST3.Spyder wrote:I dont see you your guys problem with the SAW is. Take a gun and shoot the gunner. I do it everyday with my M-16, its real easy. It only takes .5 seconds and 1 round.

Well most people here aren't complaining about the strength of the support weapon when it is used properly, people just hate the dolphin dive instant accuracy bug and the fact that they have an unlimited amount of ammo.

Ammo should only be able to be resupplied by special resupply vehicles or armories in important (main) bases imo.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-04 14:29

Yea I am all for letting them not be able to drop the ammo bags also. But if you think about it, that will take him away from his job of laying down suppressing fire etc. But then again, he should reload his men before they enter a zone which could be full of enemies. That would solve the problem since it would be slower, more realistic, and actually be like handing out ammo without changing the classes all up. I say keep their nades though, since they only get 2, and by the time they rearm, they would be dead anyway unless they are behind cover.

Ghost33 · Post by **Ghost33** » 2006-03-04 18:46

Couldn't you do as some people have stated here before, and just remove the ammo bag compleetly? I know the magazine count for most all weapons are way low for combat troops. I've heard of most shooters in combat enviroments carry in execess of 6-7 magazines for their rifles.

I wouldn't mind upping all the magazine counts for all rifles and pistols by 2-3 magazines and just have the commander crates for your grenade and rocket replenish.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-04 18:52

Even if you removed the ammo, you would still have the SAW/MG just as powerful as it was before and then you wouldn't be able to resupply your squad. and supply drops aren't always available to do that. Just make them have to hold the ammo bag to resupply which will make them holster their weapon and leave them vulnerable instead of taking something away which will just hurt the squads.

Peter-SAS · Post by **Peter-SAS** » 2006-03-05 03:10

With regards to the mod being totally about realism, and no concern for the game element.

Why even have medics who can revive people who have been shot 5 or 6 times in a critical area? Why even spawn after dying, why have friendly tags?. Easy, because it wouldn't be a game without them. I know you've trialled the tag thing, and that didn't work out. The fact of the matter is, the SAW is being abused, and is generally the best all round gun. It can out-shoot snippers, and just obliterate anything at close range. So it is not being used as it should be. A SQUAD Automatic Weapon. Not an uber super weapon that can snipe, rearm itself, survive more hits than anyone else on the battlefield and be virtually invincible at close to medium range.

ThebestCZ · Post by **ThebestCZ** » 2006-03-05 03:42

I know that in real-life MGs are stronger weapons than rifles but its ruining the fun in this game a little bit since almost every experienced player is support and then support isnt really support( since who do they support except each other?)

This is an issue in the original bf2 and many ppl suggested decreasing the accuracy of a weapon after you go prone for a few seconds

I also think the gun should be less accurate while standing and running

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-05 03:57

After robing a few idea's heres my theory;

REVAMP THE HOLE CLASS SYSTEM!!

Make a Rifleman class carrying one ammo bag, the only way this bag can rearm a team-mate is if it is droped. Riflemen also gets a anti-armour and position busing light AT weapon.

Support should have a LMG, pistol and a granade, no bags.

Assault should have the 203 wile riflemen have a stock assault rifle.

Medic should have medic bags, an assault rifle, pistol and granades and 'defibs' should go (Defibed in response to a shot to the face is somewhat unheard of in reality)

AT should have two (2) anti-tank weapon shots and a limited amount of ammo for an assault rifle

Engineer should have an assault rifle and a shotgun instead of a pistol, some mines and a pair of claymore's to protect his mines from being extinguished.

Special forces could be made into a new class, as could the sniper.
Has anyone ever thought about makeing tank driver class (the only class able to use MBT's), or makeing a demolitions class to handle C4 with a shotgun?
As all soldiers are protected by flak vests and kevlar helmets consider takeing armour off.
The good thing about modding COD was how each weapon had its own strength and realisum mods were less restricted than how BF2 modders find themselves.

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2006-03-05 04:00

Why nerf the kit? Why not only restrict it so that only a certain amount of players can use it.

My solution, have it so that when you come into the game, without a squad you can only choose between the Assault, Engineer, and Spec Ops classes can only be choosen. Now once the player joins a squad, the remaining kits become available. It would also be nice if the squad leader only has access to maybe a standard "rifleman" kit or something.

Now depending on the size of the squad it will tolerate just how many of the restricted kits can be used. For example, a 3 man squad can only have the two squad members carry seperate kits. So only one of them can have a support kit while the other has an anti-tank kit, but both of them can't use a support kit.

With a four man squad, basically the same thing. Now with a five man squad 2 players can use the same type of kit, same with 6 players.

This would really encourage much more extensive use of squads and teamwork. It will also help reduce the amount of players carrying the same weapon, since IRL you don't simply say "I'm going to use a sniper rifle today, and use a predator anti-armor system tommorow".

Thats just off the top of my head.

ThebestCZ · Post by **ThebestCZ** » 2006-03-05 04:15

but that player would have a big advantage and maybe get even TKed if that meant the TKeyer getting the MG

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2006-03-05 04:43

ThebestCZ wrote:but that player would have a big advantage and maybe get even TKed if that meant the TKeyer getting the MG

I don't think the MG is really that big of an advantage. Also here are a few things that can be done to help throw off the big advantage. First off, lets add sway to weapons. With sway I think the heavier the weapon is the bigger factor sway becomes. So a player can virtually hold a lighter weapon perfectly still, while with heavy weapons it become much more difficult. Of course sway decreases the lower the player gets to the ground.

I notice PR has virtually removed muzzle flashes. I don't know how real muzzle flashes are, but I'm pretty sure they exist somewhat. A player constantly firing can be thrown off by their own muzzle flash, since its difficult to follow and/or see your target through all that light.

Little things like these can help a bit. A machine gun should be the scourge of infantry. Other classes already have their own unique abilities, and I firmly beleive restricting certain kits between squads will work well.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-03-05 05:06

I think it's fine that some weapons are really good, so long as they are realistically so. They just need to be limited in the numbers they show up in on the battlefield.

Sgt.Sappo · Post by **Sgt.Sappo** » 2006-03-05 05:19

eh, muzzle flashes in the daytime are almost non-existant, as shown in prmm.

moreso because all the rifles etc use flash-suppressors as well.

and since we wont see any night maps, then muzzle flashes will stay gone

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2006-03-05 05:36

Cool, like I said I don't know much about muzzle flashes. Although I'm wondering aren't tracer rounds normally colored between red and green nowadays? It would be easier to distinguish who and where your being fired from. Also thicker/longer lasting smoke can help with evading and concealing against enemy gunfire.