Medics - limit triple healing???

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-03-04 19:52

EON_MagicMan wrote:You guys want realism? How about when you die, the program then immediately uninstalls itself!

no no no, what you want is when you die, the mod installs a vrius onto your pc that overheats and kills your CPU

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-03-04 21:17

no non no no no have a bullet pass through you screen and have it impact with the relevant body part.

Vantskruv · Post by **Vantskruv** » 2006-03-04 21:21

My theory of a solution is not to be able to revive a dead soldier, only heal a wounded soldier. So the life-shocks should be replaced by handgrenades or something else. It's much more realistic that way.

Another very important thing I want to get rid of is respawning at the squadleader all the time which is very unrealistic. A solution I've thought about is to make the members of a squad only be able to respawn at the squadleader when the squadleader respawns, or respawn whenever they want at the base (but this may scatter the group, maybe the free will of respawning on a base should be disabled for squad-members, except for the squad-leader).

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-03-04 21:32

Vantskruv wrote:My theory of a solution is not to be able to revive a dead soldier, only heal a wounded soldier. So the life-shocks should be replaced by handgrenades or something else. It's much more realistic that way.

Another very important thing I want to get rid of is respawning at the squadleader all the time which is very unrealistic. A solution I've thought about is to make the members of a squad only be able to respawn at the squadleader when the squadleader respawns, or respawn whenever they want at the base (but this may scatter the group, maybe the free will of respawning on a base should be disabled for squad-members, except for the squad-leader).

Don't play in squads much, do you?

Squad preservation is key to squad play. The medic/squad spawn system is a hell of an incentive to stick with your squad, and to play as a squad.

The day you either can't revive/can't spawn on your squad leader, is the day I go back to Vanilla BF2, because that's the day that even Vanilla BF2 will have better teamplay.

Post by **eggman** » 2006-03-04 21:46

IMO the first step to addressing this is class limitations. That way you avoid having a squad consist of 3 SAWs and 3 Medics. That, to me, is the root cause of many of these problems.

Although not terribly realistic, I do like the game play dynamics of the shock paddles. It really does encourage squads to stick together.

I don't think punishing the Medic for staying alive for a long time and reviving a lot of players is a good idea. It could be interesting to require that the Medic "reloads" the shock paddles from a supply source (so for example they get 4 revives and must reload beyond that, kinda treating it more like a magazine than a constantly rechargeable device).

It's probably quite easy to make the shock paddle recharge time much longer, but BF2 does not give much in the way of feedback as to when they are ready to be used again, so we'd have to look into that.

This is good discussion Gents... I think there are a few "thorns" in the side of a realism mod and this is one of them. That said... we're not going to toss out gameplay in the face of realism, so don't expect anything too ridiculously hard core.... you won't see a Project Reality with a single life per round heh.

egg

blueyze · Post by **blueyze** » 2006-03-04 22:00

great idea, medics are a bit too powerfull and unlimited revive and healing should be more restricted if we want to have it more realistic

class restrictions would be cool as hell

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-04 23:35

EON_MagicMan wrote:Don't play in squads much, do you?

Squad preservation is key to squad play. The medic/squad spawn system is a hell of an incentive to stick with your squad, and to play as a squad.

The day you either can't revive/can't spawn on your squad leader, is the day I go back to Vanilla BF2, because that's the day that even Vanilla BF2 will have better teamplay.

I agree with this. As it is now, there are already not that many medics in the game or many medics in a squad. And it is very rare that you will actually get 3 SAW Gunners and 3 Medics unless people are frequently changing classes and if you do get that makeup, it is very easy to eliminate that squad since all the medics will hop for someone who is down leaving them exposed.

I think the are fine the way they are now and it is because a lack of teamwork which is why people have a problem with medics. Medics rarely cover each other and instead g ofor the same guy which makes them easier targets tha nyou think. Of course the changes suggested here will support the lone wolf more than the squad and will only lessen good squad battles. Not to bash anyone or the like, but I find that the lone wolves should be the ones complaining about this since they can't take on a whole squad and feel they should. Just kill the medic when he goes to revive which is an easy kill.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-03-04 23:44

I find quite a few complaints are from people who don't play the game the way I imagine the game's supposed to be played.

Complaints about SAWs and MGs in general, etc, are all things that a) are meant for squads to use to their advantages and are b) easily overcomable (does this word exist?) by teamwork.

Ditto with spawntimes-- if you hate waiting to spawn, JOIN A SQUAD AND STICK WITH IT. I'm not going to abandon the squad leader to bring your *** back to life, because you ran out into the middle of a hotzone.

[/RANT]

Deagle · Post by **Deagle** » 2006-03-05 04:19

I can't remember who had the idea originally, but someone suggested making the shock paddles have a limited charge on them. Give them something like 5 or 6 revives, and then they become useless, untill they get recharged at the supply crate.

Think about it. If you were to carry around a portable resus unit, what would power it? Would there be a long and pain-in-the-*** power cable stretching back to the main base to power the unit? Or would it be battery powered, giving it a limited amount of revives it can handle before it needs "rearming"? My vote is to give the shock paddles a life of say 6 revives, and have it so that it can only be recharged from an ammo crate. I know that the SAW player should be able to cover the role of re-arming it, but the SAW is powerful enough as it is.

As for taking out the spawning on SL feature, my vote is not to. Although it's not realistic in the slightest, it lends itself to the gameplay, and gives the game a faster speed. Imagine having to wait for 2 or 3 squad-members to spawn, then jumping in a Hummer, driving halfway across the map, only to run into a guy with an ERYX who takes you down. Got frustrating?

Sgt.Sappo · Post by **Sgt.Sappo** » 2006-03-05 05:24

hmm seems people mis-read my idea.

take it as such:

you spawn in at your base.

you now have the ability to DIE twice and get 'revived'.

so after you get killed the 3rd time, no medic in the world can save you... you now goto the respawn screen.

but the medic isnt done just because he used up 2 revives, that goes for EVERY soldier.

it almost sounds like people thought I meant for the medic to only be able to revive 3 people and then be useless.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-03-05 05:42

Sgt.Sappo wrote:it almost sounds like people thought I meant for the medic to only be able to revive 3 people and then be useless.

Actually that would work out better than having to die after 2 deaths, and then the medic can get resupplied from supply crates only, as mentioned above (of course, the numbers would have to be fooled around with).

Either way, your SL can easily just be at the wrong place and the wrong time, and frequently is, and as a result, dies 3 times, being revived each time. Basically, it sucks to have your squad leader killed, say, in a car, or by getting hit directly by a rocket. Especially if you have a good flank.

Fighting your way to a good flank can take as long as 7 minutes, and usually does.

I also think that squad leader cycling should be discouraged, and this would definitely encourage it.

At least having a medic only have a certain amount of juice for his paddles has a solution-- that being a helpful commander. I find supply drops aren't very useful, besides for giving repairs (do they even do that in PRMM?)

Sgt.Sappo · Post by **Sgt.Sappo** » 2006-03-06 03:43

maybe we can just... give everyone candy?

ohhh candy!

Post by **eggman** » 2006-03-06 04:29

I now understand what you were geting at .. good idea, sorry I misunderstood.

Will look into it.

egg

Sgt.Sappo · Post by **Sgt.Sappo** » 2006-03-06 04:35

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']I now understand what you were geting at .. good idea, sorry I misunderstood.

Will look into it.

egg

about the candy?

f'king right!!

free candy for all i PRMM!

Ghost33 · Post by **Ghost33** » 2006-03-06 06:08

fuzzhead wrote:No offense Ghost33, i think that is an extremely lame and cheap tactic.

Sgt.Sappo wrote:wow, yea ghost33, if i saw something like that happening on a server like gloryhoundz i would quickly vote for a ban... sorry.

thats just about as cheap as it gets.

I personally have cycled SL and seen it happen often, but that is nowhere near what you are suggesting, instantly spawning 20-30 soldiers out of thin air into the enemy base? seriously.

I't is very cheap, but in a tournament where the enemy uses this tactic you can't whine about it and hope something happenes, you need to do it better than them or loose constantly. I would be happy if our tourny had locked squads and kicked anyone from the server that unlocked it. but they don't so we have to do this better than them or loose. (just remember folks this comes out of vBF2, i'm just porting the general idea here)

I'ts something I don't do here (PRMM) to that extent.

I was mearly suggesting and explaining that if your SL goes down due to something incredibly lame like getting run over its not the end of the world (or the assult), you can just cycle SL's

Post by **eggman** » 2006-03-06 07:10

Am gonna fool around with some stuff to address the concerns raised, including some method of penalising players for the squad hopping tactic.

egg

Deagle · Post by **Deagle** » 2006-03-06 09:18

If you do manage to implement Sappo's idea, that would still leave the shock machine with an incredibly long power cord. If it's small enough to be carried around by a Medic in combat, then it has to be battery powered. If it is battery powered, then it will have a limited amount of recharges.

My opinion is give it something like 6 to 8 "shots", where it will need to be "reloaded" once they have been done. When the person is bought back to life, make it to 50% health.

acadiancrusader · Post by **acadiancrusader** » 2006-03-06 15:55

the most effective and simple tactic to use in BF2 (vanilla or PRMM), but also the most anti-immersive element to the game is SL cycling.

it works, but god, oh god, i hate it.

find a way to get rid of SL cycling, and this game will be infinitely better.

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-03-06 19:03

Instead of giving them x number of revives depending on what we think is appropriate we look at how many shocks a real portable defibrilator can give effectively.

Also, you guys should really remodle the "shock paddles" because they don't look at all like portable defib's at all. There is far more to them then just paddles, the ones at my school have a box that the paddles are atached to. This box isn't just a battery, but it houses a computer that doesn't allow the paddles to give their shock if it detects a heartbeat with a normal rythm.

With that said, I'll say again that I don't think people should be revived at all anymore. The only things defib's do is reset the rythm of the heart so unless the players gunshot wounds only resulted in arrhythmia or the heart to just stop, their would be no saving the player.

Yes, reviving is right now a major part of tactics and making it generally easier to play, but I personally would prefer true realism. It would take time to get used to the adjustment if it was implemented, but I think it would lead to a general feeling of realism eventually.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-03-06 19:07

I understand that this mod is a realism mod, and that's important, but not being able to revive would cripple the gameplay.

Teamplay is essential, and removing revives would throw teamplay back to Vanilla standards-- probably even worse.