Would you sacrifice move/shoot to 100% eliminate prone spam?

[Wolfe]

I knew a kid who used to beat himself in the head and a girl who liked to be strangled.. but then again, everyone has their idea of fun...

Attention, Forum moderator:
Please lock this thread; it has served its use. The answer the original question of this thread was answered with a resounding "no" and I would tend to agree. The feedback was informative and helpful.

[snow]

Bludshot, what do you really think?

[blud]

Haha... yeah...


I think PR is a mod made by a lot of great people who have done a mountain of amazing work, and I've been a big supporter since I first heard of PR almost 2 years ago.

But yeah this thread has run it's course

[Deadmonkiefart]

At first glance it seems like a good idea, but the then consider what would happen to close quarters firefights, like in buildings? It would make the defender utterly invincible. I don't support this idea. Like Zimmer an Masaq said, it's not realistic.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

This is exactly how the game plays now, isn't it? Accuracy is so precise that whoever sees the the other guy first, wins. And the best shot? Moving the cursor over the player then pressing the fire button 3 times per second hardly defines who is the best shooter. That's just twitch vanilla bf2 style.

I'd rather see a game where position and teamwork is rewarded more than the guy who can move his mouse faster than everyone else. Besides, we're only talking about a 1 second delay... enough time for the stationary player to accurately shoot the running rambo balls to the wall prone diving player. Is that so horrible?

Just deal with it. They already upped the deviation majorly from VBF2 and older versions of PR. Anything else you want is just unrealistic, especially moving while firing. Defenders already have a huge advantage in this game because their weapons are already settled, no need to make them the end all players in this game. Firing on the move against a target is a requirement in the USMC rifle qual, so I know it is realistic to fire on the move first hand. It is also not hard at all to hit something on the move from 10-50 feet away moving towards it. The weapons ingame seem cheap to use, but I know the M16 is actually that easy to shoot. You think a well trained grunt or battle hardened grunt would have a problem with shooting on the move?


Tell me what game has ever had good CQB anyway? SWAT 3/4 are about the only ones I know of. CQB is dirty business anyway. Sure, I hate the prone diving too, but it will probably never be fixed just because of engine limitations. Even if it was fixed, people would come up with another way to be cheap. You are trying to be too much of an elitist and thinking that CQB should be like all the videos out there on the internet or in movies when a game cannot really replicate real life situations with human opponents because they improvise.

Fact is, players ingame are not professionally trained forces, so they will not have the coordination, infantry skills, or real life limitations like ingame. And you still can't take the fast nature out of the BF2 engine either.

[Bringerof_D]

then that takes away realism for fire and advances. you cant hit **** even if you're slowly advancing on your target. and in CQB you have thats how it works, just simply taking a minute step to the side completely killing your accuracy does not do well for realism

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Define "ruined". Deviation hasn't changed much except for the .6 laser gun nightmare. Beyond that, the only changes to PR are the new skins, models, removal of clown car/SL spawning, addition of commander assets, and new maps & vehicles. Take away that, and we're back to vanilla...

And for what it's worth, I've been able to severely reduce run'n gun prone spam while without harming accuracy or CQB tactics. We did another round of testing tonight and it's pretty frick'n awesome, and far better than what currently exists.

Of course, everything is subjective.

PR has changed 180 degrees since vanilla. If you cannot realize that, then why are you playing this mod? Every other BF2 mod out there is basically just vanilla with new weapons and vehicles, but PR isn't. You aren't looking beneath the surfice at the changes the DEVs have made through all the patches.

The addition of firebases/bunkers/buildable CO stuff alone would change PR's combat 180 degress from vanilla. Same with RPs. Same with levels, etc. I have been playing COD4 lately and I played vanilla a while back and they showed me just why I appreciate PR so much. What do you want this game to be, ArmA on the BF2 engine? The game is just about the most realistic military shooter out besides SWAT 4 which is in a completely different environment, and ArmA/OFP which don't have that big of communities anyway or the level of "easy" fun like PR and are much more strict.

[Liquid_Cow]

Tell me what game has ever had good CQB anyway?

I still think Raven Shield was one of the best (and I still play it from time to time), but there were other problems (mostly the fact that there was no camoflage and severe climbing limitations).


I agree with you SOF, get over it. So what if the animation did not sync up with what the player can do, are you waiting for him to hit the ground before you shoot? In RVS we used to be able to shoot before the reloading animation was complete, people whined about that too. IRL can a running Marine dive to the ground and hit a target at 100 yards with one shot? Not unless he's pretty lucky, but by the 3rd shot the target will be getting real nervous if he's still standing.


BTW Soldier, last time I went to the KD500 I shot a 247, that was with an A2 in 91. Semper fi!

[Wolfe]

PR has changed 180 degrees since vanilla. If you cannot realize that, then why are you playing this mod? ... You aren't looking beneath the surfice at the changes the DEVs have made through all the patches.

You aren't reading between the lines; I was being facetious.

[PFunk]

There are only 2 ways to make for a realistic gaming experience. A game that is designed from the beginning to be realistic but balanced for gameplay (not BF2, especially not without an SDK), and then theres playing with people who are like you and want to play realistically and so wont be acting the way you're saying they are.

The mod is what it is. Changing too much makes it a different mod with a different balance. .8 with this change might as well be 0.1a.

I still say the best way to make it realistic is to change the people, not the game.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

I still think Raven Shield was one of the best (and I still play it from time to time), but there were other problems (mostly the fact that there was no camoflage and severe climbing limitations).


I agree with you SOF, get over it. So what if the animation did not sync up with what the player can do, are you waiting for him to hit the ground before you shoot? In RVS we used to be able to shoot before the reloading animation was complete, people whined about that too. IRL can a running Marine dive to the ground and hit a target at 100 yards with one shot? Not unless he's pretty lucky, but by the 3rd shot the target will be getting real nervous if he's still standing.


BTW Soldier, last time I went to the KD500 I shot a 247, that was with an A2 in 91. Semper fi!

Damn good score. We go back to the range in July to re-qual. Semper Fi!

There are only 2 ways to make for a realistic gaming experience. A game that is designed from the beginning to be realistic but balanced for gameplay (not BF2, especially not without an SDK), and then theres playing with people who are like you and want to play realistically and so wont be acting the way you're saying they are.

The mod is what it is. Changing too much makes it a different mod with a different balance. .8 with this change might as well be 0.1a.

I still say the best way to make it realistic is to change the people, not the game.

Exactly. This game has gotten better over time partially because the players are being more educated and changed. There are smacktards and idiots in any game, no matter how realistic or restricted it is, just because that is the way things are. Back when GloryHoundz was up in 0.3, the player community was close and good squads were somewhat easy to make, but it is much easier now considering that the community has gotten 10x bigger.

[SiN|ScarFace]

Interesting idea, but I don't think this is the solution.

[ReaperMAC]

I still say the best way to make it realistic is to change the people, not the game.

Funny, cause to change the people, you have to change the mod so that people can adapt to it. Which is why people who play vBF2 don't play PR as much because they have to change their playstyle in PR.

Anyways, Wolfe has taken a slightly new direction with his modifications, so do not be worried

[Outlawz7]

Which is why people who play vBF2 don't play PR as much because they have to change their playstyle in PR.

Actually they don't. Everyone noob tubes (holding UGL equipped and shooting it at anything), solo tanks and flying the air assets around showing off only to be shot down, lone wolf with uber-powerful kits, camping for jets, bunnyhopping and prone diving etc.

Only difference is some fancy stuff, limited kits and some extra knowledge you need.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Funny, cause to change the people, you have to change the mod so that people can adapt to it. Which is why people who play vBF2 don't play PR as much because they have to change their playstyle in PR.

Anyways, Wolfe has taken a slightly new direction with his modifications, so do not be worried

No, if people really want to play this game, they will adapt to it. When I first played PR, it was slightly different from PR, but I adapted to it and every patch after it, whether the patch was good for bad.

[Psyko]

Well a lot of people have expressed that they would need to test this theory. But i think the same effect could be achieved by increasing the accurasy delay when the unit comes to a halt. Currently the suppression overlay is enough to keep people behind cover, (apart from shader hacks) and so i would reccomend persuing different avenues. but i would be more than willing to partisipate in a test.

[ReaperMAC]

Actually they don't. Everyone noob tubes (holding UGL equipped and shooting it at anything), solo tanks and flying the air assets around showing off only to be shot down, lone wolf with uber-powerful kits, camping for jets, bunnyhopping and prone diving etc.

Only difference is some fancy stuff, limited kits and some extra knowledge you need.

Not everyone. And also, they don't get the same results as in vBF2, (with suppression, deviation, etc.) hence they either leave or adapt. You can't play exactly the way you play in vBF2.

if people really want to play this game, they will adapt to it. When I first played PR, it was slightly different from PR, but I adapted to it and every patch after it, whether the patch was good for bad.

Exactly, you change the mod/parts of the mod, and players will change by adapting. No one is forcing you to play, you decide if you want to change. Otherwise playing the mod might not be as fun

[PFunk]

You can't play exactly the way you play in vBF2.

That doesn't mean that you can't try to.

The game is nothing. Its just a shell around which we build our little community. The real meat and potatoes of the mod is you and me and the rest of these guys who play the game the way it should be played.

You don't have to achieve the results of VBF2 to ruin the fun of PR. Its as simple as stealing a Cobra and one piloting it or TKing for no reason.

You can't change the mod to make people not play poorly or how we would consider it incorrectly. We can only tell them that this is how we do it and that they can fuck off if they don't like it. And if they listen we have a good game and if they don't... well then we have a crappy round of Kashan and wonder why we didn't quit 40 minutes ago.

C'est la vie. Its like in political philosophy where they talk about the state not being able to legislate morality. Thats for your mom and dad. We're mom and dad, and guess who the mod is.

[ReaperMAC]

That doesn't mean that you can't try to.

The game is nothing. Its just a shell around which we build our little community. The real meat and potatoes of the mod is you and me and the rest of these guys who play the game the way it should be played.

You can try, but you won't be "pwning" like you used to in vBF2. Of course you can't have a popular mod without some people, not to say changes are a bad thing. What is the way it should be played? Be it the way the DEVs want it to be played or how you want to play it?

You don't have to achieve the results of VBF2 to ruin the fun of PR. Its as simple as stealing a Cobra and one piloting it or TKing for no reason.

So you are saying that everyone who plays vBF2 tries to ruin the fun in PR? People who wish to play PR adapt and change. Sure they can steal a Cobra, but they still have to change the way they do it. Take the SL Spawn and Minimap removal for example. If you want to have fun by not staring at your black screen of death, you still have to change.

You can't change the mod to make people not play poorly or how we would consider it incorrectly. We can only tell them that this is how we do it and that they can fuck off if they don't like it. And if they listen we have a good game and if they don't... well then we have a crappy round of Kashan and wonder why we didn't quit 40 minutes ago.

Well then, why change the mod in terms of restricting things such as assets, spawning, kit selections, etc. if we could just tell them that "you only need 1 marksman for a squad" or "don't spawn on the SL because it's not realistic"?

Sure changing the mod doesn't always change certain behaviors in people, but it does change people. I know I have.

C'est la vie. Its like in political philosophy where they talk about the state not being able to legislate morality. Thats for your mom and dad. We're mom and dad, and guess who the mod is.

I'm going to stop there...

Anyways, like Wolfe said, this thread has run its course. He's developed a different solution of solving "prone spam" without reducing movement. Carry on folks.

[fludblud]

making running and gunning would not only turn PR into a campfest, its totally unrealistic.

yes! you can actually run and gun in real life! hell just the other day i took out three people at an airsoft game by rushing at them full sprint with my MP5, all you need is a steady hand and a good idea where they are.