Get down! DON"T get in da choppah!

[Waaah_Wah]

But how realistic is being shot down by everything?

Very

[101 bassdrive]

Very

and that, ladies and wiseguys, is why the eurocopter is invincible against, and the LBpredessor was used attract in vietnam: small arms fire.

[CAS_117]

Missiles make everything better.

*edit

I think it is nice that vechicals like attack choppers are a little under powered, so that it actually takes skill and teamwork to get them to work. Just like in real life, a regular guy can't just dominate with the thing; you need expiriance.

Teamwork is supposed to solve existing problems, not create new ones. I'm all for making things underpowered, as long as it applies to everything. Lets add laser guided bullets for riflemen and not allow tanks for fire unless someone has put a green blob onto an enemy. It promotes teamwork, so I don't see why not. I mean isn't that how real wars are fought? Adding as many moving parts to a system as possible in order to make its operation as slow and convoluted as those it affects will tolerate?

[Alex6714]

CAS_117;671739'] I'm all for making things underpowered, as long as it applies to everything. Lets add laser guided bullets for riflemen and not allow tanks for fire unless someone has put a green blob onto an enemy.

Yes, exactly.

I don´t think the aircraft need any lasing in real life either, it is just an extra if needed on a specific area. So if we go for realism, lets go for it on the ground and also in the air please.

[markonymous]

realism in the air equals everything on the ground being dead. Thats the problem. I think making the Hellfire missile similar to the TV guided missiles of old in the way that you click instead of follow. I think that would make it much more balanced. And also make it so that the AAs can't lock-on if you are under a certain altitude like in real life.

[Deadmonkiefart]

AA should remain one manned, but I think giving the chopper pilot some sort of zoom would be reasonable.

[Psyko]

(1) I have been waiting to get some feedback from the devs on their opinions of attack choppers. Having a badly performing gunship is like getting a pie in the face. If your going to do somthing, then you should do it right in my opinion. I would love to see a poll on the public's opinions on whether the gunship should be increased or reduced in power. Realism is realism, and we dont play this game for fiction.

(2) The gunner's controls are AWEFUL! you cant find targets, the targeting retical regularly glitches (flickers over and back in a line about 200 meters long)

(3) the gunner simply can't get a steady shot! (to increase my gunner's ability to shoot i have spent many hours on the training mod practicing my abilities to hover and reduce speed and maintain the hovering circle, but it is extremely difficult, if i increase my sencitivity to manouver through terrain i cant steady the helicopter, if i reduce sencitivity i cant manvouver through tree trunks or make sharp turns or loops.) Because there are very little visual references to use in relation to balancing the rotorblades and maintain a hover, the ship slides about. I still dont even know how to work the bloody hovering circle, lol! If it goes up and to the left am i ment to push the mouse down and to the right!? ect.

(4) I like the point about the flares, and the apache video is very interesting. the AAA missiles take the bird out instantly! its extremely demoralising for the pair of pilots to be shot down so effortlessly. And to be honust, its not bloody realistic! I perform gunship manouvers like it says in flight manuels, you move low, varify a target with a third party or on your own, then move up and over a large body of cover and strike the targets from their blind spot, then move off before they riddle you. Most gunships DO have reduced heat signatures, and all have stabilisers. Now maybe the BF2 engine isnt capable of producing a stabiliser like that, but if you can counter the slide on the tanks and other armour, im sure you can counter air movement as well.

(5) I like the current flight dynamics, they are quite good for movement, but the weaknesses and the gunner's targeting abilities need to be revamped. I would fly it if it was a card-board-box, once it acted like an accurate apache.

(6) I'm now, on my knees, begging... PLEASE FIX THE GUNSHIP FOR THE NEXT VERSION!!!! PLEASE!!!

(7) Finally and most importanly, i know how important it is, not to Nerf the gamplay. its the golden rule as far as i can see. But i realisticly dont see the gunship(of which one spawns every 20 minutes) should be so harmlessly defencless. Either the gunship should be brought up to proper nick, or it should be totally taken out just like the .50 cal rifles, because currently it is an item that teases you and makes you depressed, even if you are very good at flying them.

[CanuckCommander]

(1) I have been waiting to get some feedback from the devs on their opinions of attack choppers. Having a badly performing gunship is like getting a pie in the face. If your going to do somthing, then you should do it right in my opinion. I would love to see a poll on the public's opinions on whether the gunship should be increased or reduced in power. Realism is realism, and we dont play this game for fiction.

(2) The gunner's controls are AWEFUL! you cant find targets, the targeting retical regularly glitches (flickers over and back in a line about 200 meters long)

(3) the gunner simply can't get a steady shot! (to increase my gunner's ability to shoot i have spent many hours on the training mod practicing my abilities to hover and reduce speed and maintain the hovering circle, but it is extremely difficult, if i increase my sencitivity to manouver through terrain i cant steady the helicopter, if i reduce sencitivity i cant manvouver through tree trunks or make sharp turns or loops.) Because there are very little visual references to use in relation to balancing the rotorblades and maintain a hover, the ship slides about. I still dont even know how to work the bloody hovering circle, lol! If it goes up and to the left am i ment to push the mouse down and to the right!? ect.

(4) I like the point about the flares, and the apache video is very interesting. the AAA missiles take the bird out instantly! its extremely demoralising for the pair of pilots to be shot down so effortlessly. And to be honust, its not bloody realistic! I perform gunship manouvers like it says in flight manuels, you move low, varify a target with a third party or on your own, then move up and over a large body of cover and strike the targets from their blind spot, then move off before they riddle you. Most gunships DO have reduced heat signatures, and all have stabilisers. Now maybe the BF2 engine isnt capable of producing a stabiliser like that, but if you can counter the slide on the tanks and other armour, im sure you can counter air movement as well.

(5) I like the current flight dynamics, they are quite good for movement, but the weaknesses and the gunner's targeting abilities need to be revamped. I would fly it if it was a card-board-box, once it acted like an accurate apache.

(6) I'm now, on my knees, begging... PLEASE FIX THE GUNSHIP FOR THE NEXT VERSION!!!! PLEASE!!!

I just want to stress that due to BF2 limitations (map size, and coding) we have to balance realism and fairness.

2)Targeting does glitch, but target finding is so hard because PR lacks many functions of the optics that real Helos have, ie. Night, thermal, IR, stabilization, target tracking, etc. Also the gunner's limited field of view when zoomed in makes it harder to find targets due to that decorative frame around the gun cam/hud.

3) I agree with the sensitivity thing, too low you can't flip easily, too high can't hover. The need for perfect hover can be easily abolished if the gunner had a way to fire accurately while the helo is drifting a bit.

4)I don't care if the gunships have reduce heat signatures, but AA missile should still lock on to retain gameplay balance. In fact, if you REALLY want realism, gunships like Apaches have IR(infrared) Jammers that prevent stingers from locking on. Instead, I just want my flares to be a little more effective. Oh, and stabilization is possible I forgot who made the video, I think CAS or Rhino, they tried out stabilization on chopper and it was way better than now.

5) I think my suggested targeting methods would work.

6) Hopefully they are working on it.

[Waaah_Wah]

(2) The gunner's controls are AWEFUL! you cant find targets, the targeting retical regularly glitches (flickers over and back in a line about 200 meters long)

Spam spot.

[Mora]

Its not the firepower they lag, its how to maintain them in pr.


There are only a few things that needs to be changed/added;


1) Gunner stabilization that actually works good not like the scimitar.. maybe make it a bit loose, ive said this before too.

2) Balance the AA to chopper abit more, make it slightly less lethal.

3) Reduce the spawntime to 10min. Maybe also for the aa? tanks?

4) Proper sounds.

5) Proper HUD.

6) Separate text for aircraft; Enemy attack chopper spotted, Enemy transport chopper spotted.


I might have forgot some


Anyway i hope they will works on these things.

[Waaah_Wah]

Whats wrong with the Scimitar?

[Mora]

When you move to the left or right the turret moves the opposite way, it wont stay on the same spot.

[Psyko]

I just want to stress that due to BF2 limitations (map size, and coding) we have to balance realism and fairness.

2)Targeting does glitch, but target finding is so hard because PR lacks many functions of the optics that real Helos have, ie. Night, thermal, IR, stabilization, target tracking, etc. Also the gunner's limited field of view when zoomed in makes it harder to find targets due to that decorative frame around the gun cam/hud.

3) I agree with the sensitivity thing, too low you can't flip easily, too high can't hover. The need for perfect hover can be easily abolished if the gunner had a way to fire accurately while the helo is drifting a bit.

4)I don't care if the gunships have reduce heat signatures, but AA missile should still lock on to retain gameplay balance. In fact, if you REALLY want realism, gunships like Apaches have IR(infrared) Jammers that prevent stingers from locking on. Instead, I just want my flares to be a little more effective. Oh, and stabilization is possible I forgot who made the video, I think CAS or Rhino, they tried out stabilization on chopper and it was way better than now.

5) I think my suggested targeting methods would work.

6) Hopefully they are working on it.

Oh i know the engine limitations are the biggest factor. But i still to this day find it amasing how the Devs can alter it to make it what it is today. I find that astounding. Im not being a lickass, i'm just saying...well done.

[Nickbond592]

1) The Attack choppers as they are are very lethal when manned correctly and using the right tactics.

its offencive capability's are immense, Guided by hand or Lazer missiles that take out any opposing vehicle in one hit, and a cannon with the same characteristics as the tungusta or Essex carrier defence weapon along with the handy Hydras.

2) the gunners controls are hard to use and i prefer it this way it takes skill to distinguish a bush from a tank in black and white and as such if you can you'll be rewarded.

3) as with anything Practice makes perfect, a day to learn, a lifetime to master. there are players in the community that are very skilled in the Attack choppers and they have no problems in hovering or maneuvering through trees ( watch some of Mora's, Spaz's, Alex's or my youtube videos from the top of my head )

4) Agreed the Flares could do with being thrown further away from the chopper the AA missiles are designed for countering Jets, due to Jets increased speed and maneuverability the AA splash damage is somewhat large to help against network lag and the like, the down side of this is that flares on the chopper only show their importance when the choppers in motion.

5) Gameplay and engine limitations are whats stopping the Attack choppers from behaving like their real life counterparts, we havent got the ability to engage from a stand off range or use onboard radar or radar and IR weapons systems etc.

6)the only things that i would personally like to see implemented would be improved Gunner stabilisation although its not necessary and perhaps a colour gunner sight but i'm not sure on its authenticity

7) Again in the Right circumstances there is nothing better than a attack chopper, if they were to easy to use it'd ruin the gameplay and every numpty would be in one.

its much better to have a weapon that takes a lot of skill to use correctly than one that anyone and his dog can use.

[Psyko]

1) The Attack choppers as they are are very lethal when manned correctly and using the right tactics.

its offencive capability's are immense, Guided by hand or Lazer missiles that take out any opposing vehicle in one hit, and a cannon with the same characteristics as the tungusta or Essex carrier defence weapon along with the handy Hydras.

2) the gunners controls are hard to use and i prefer it this way it takes skill to distinguish a bush from a tank in black and white and as such if you can you'll be rewarded.

3) as with anything Practice makes perfect, a day to learn, a lifetime to master. there are players in the community that are very skilled in the Attack choppers and they have no problems in hovering or maneuvering through trees ( watch some of Mora's, Spaz's, Alex's or my youtube videos from the top of my head )

4) Agreed the Flares could do with being thrown further away from the chopper the AA missiles are designed for countering Jets, due to Jets increased speed and maneuverability the AA splash damage is somewhat large to help against network lag and the like, the down side of this is that flares on the chopper only show their importance when the choppers in motion.

5) Gameplay and engine limitations are whats stopping the Attack choppers from behaving like their real life counterparts, we havent got the ability to engage from a stand off range or use onboard radar or radar and IR weapons systems etc.

6)the only things that i would personally like to see implemented would be improved Gunner stabilisation although its not necessary and perhaps a colour gunner sight but i'm not sure on its authenticity

7) Again in the Right circumstances there is nothing better than a attack chopper, if they were to easy to use it'd ruin the gameplay and every numpty would be in one.

its much better to have a weapon that takes a lot of skill to use correctly than one that anyone and his dog can use.

Thanks for the reply, I agree with you on everything you said.
All that should be done, is some sort of stabilisation. The nose of the chopper drops slowly and exponentially, if you could encorperate a simple button that would stop the nose from dropping (while at the same time siesing up the other manouver controls so as players wouldnt fly around with it on all the time) the gunship would be stead and the gamer could do the rest.

I dont think the gunner needs any changes though, i said the gunner controls were awefull and i made a mistake, what i ment to say was, the average pilot's hovering abilities make the gunner's contols extremely ineffective. but i stand by what i said about the targets not clicking to stuff. you press the target button, and the blip moves from the piece of ground directly under the chopper to the target and sits there. and im sceptical as to wether this is simulating the real life controls of a gunship. i thought the target would just be in the center of the screen and would have a lock emmediatly.

[feeblezak]

i dont really think theirs anything wrong with helicopters, except the bug were you think its warmed up but it hasent, you have a full squad in your helicopter, try taking off, and roll into so many people that you get kicked off the server for excessive Tk's

[Spaz]

i dont really think theirs anything wrong with helicopters, except the bug were you think its warmed up but it hasent, you have a full squad in your helicopter, try taking off, and roll into so many people that you get kicked off the server for excessive Tk's

hmm what you are talking about is transport helicopter.


Also just as a not im so happy that the devs made this new hellfire system, the old tv guided was way to easy to use and you didn't really need any skills at all.

[Waaah_Wah]

Btw, there is one issue with the chopters right now. Havoc is the only only chopter that can aim far enough down, so you have to be lower with those other chopters if you want your gunner to actually kill anything

[markonymous]

ye the movement capabilities of the gunner view should be increased so the gunner can look straight down. I also think there should be another Missile system a system that goes straight where you click. and you only have one click.

[Mora]

Movement capabilities of the gunner view should be increased indeed, especially for the cobra. Ive made a threat about this too a while ago.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... ation.html

They should be all like the havoc or even more. I don't know how far they can reach irl but i think they can move more down then the cobra has now..