I searched the forumz and didnt find anyting on dis topic.
I am very angorx(angry)!!!!!!!! How come jet whores can go around bombing stuff when ever they wants? In reallife jets gotta get permissions from commander before they drop bombs. So my suggestion is, before jet can drop bomb, make it so commander hads to press button for them.
1. It adds teamwork
2. stops those jets whores from not teamworking!
3. more realistic
It makes me angorx when i see planes just randomly dropping bombs. Personally i think they should stay on airfield until they get missions. Or they should just get there feet on the ground like the rest of us, and not be cow-orz(cowards). Thanks for readings, english not my firsts language.
ragchan wrote:Actully no, you r wrong, and you miss my point.
No, I am not wrong, yes there are free fall bombs, but you cannot lase until the CO accepts it. My statement was focused on one aspect. To address your point more thouroughly.
While it might seem realistic to have the aircraft have to get a go order from the commander, it can be assumed that the aircraft, before the match begins, have recieved order to support the ground forces. Having to wait for your CO, who is not always present, to give you a go command to bomb the enemy would take the fun out of flying, because you wouldn't be able to do anything half the time. Realisticly, every infantry squad would have to request permission to engage the enemy if they haven't been fired upon.
OMG Tirak, on kashan, u have to wait, 20 mins, lots of time for commander!!!!!! Also you r wrong, you dont have to wait for commander aproval > unrealistic. If you laze u can bomb, commander jsut makes picture on maps. OKs? I don't no much abut bf2 enggines, but it probably extremell easy to do.
*Sigh* I have tried to lase without asking the CO for CAS, and it never works, maybe it's because the pilots don't have the reference points, I could very well be wrong, I've only recently begun playing PR, but in my experiance, if I don't ask for CO approval, I can't lase.
I play on public servers mostly, if you have a commander, your lucky. If you have one that actually does their job, you are very lucky. So you will run into the same problem you have with deploying commander assets. The difference is, Commander Assets can be done without on public servers, but removing any teeth aircraft has is unfun and pointless.
Mora wrote:Pointless threat, what you're suggesting is not going to happen. I'd lock.
You obviously dont understand... Ok, let me go in detail. It adds alot of teamwork. Know how the commander can call in jdams??? The jets woud be like that in to, just like in real life. Ex. A squad underattack, a jet is waiting on runway and takes off. Squad leader lazes it, the before jet attacks he gets approval from commander. Then he can drop bombs. It would make jets less lone wolf and more teamwork. I just dont think jets should be so powerful. They need more teamwork added!!!! like in real life. Understand now?
Ragchan, we understand what you're saying, we do not however, agree with what you're saying. You don't get this kind of teamwork on Public Servers often, and people who play on restricted servers generally already have some kind of CAS system in place. It is uneccessary and would have a negative effect on gameplay. This is the last I'm going to say on the subject.
Any type of laser target, whether it appear as a red CAS marker on the map, or even if it doesn't appear on the map at all, is able to be locked on and hit by BOTH types of laser ordinance. That is, the LGBs (Bombs) and the AGMs (Air to Ground missile).
In game, there are three types of people who can laser targets.
Commander
Squad Leaders
Soldiers with Spec Ops Kit
The Commander can:
-Set an ORANGE CAS Marker, which is not a laser target. It is simply a map marker to show where CAS cover is needed
-Set a RED CAS Marker. He can set this one of two ways, by actually pulling out his binoculars and setting his target with a CAS marker, or simply by pulling up his map and right clicking to set one from anywhere on the map (inaccurate at most times).
-Laser targets without making any marker, and just using other means (attack orders) to guide CAS aircraft to it.
The Squad Leader can:
-Laser targets without making any marker, and just using other means (attack orders) to guide CAS aircraft to it.
-Point his binoculars at the target and REQUEST CAS on his target (which CO has to approve, with either an Orange CAS marker or Red one, whichever was requested)
The Spec Ops Soldier can:
-Laser targets without making any marker, and just using other means to guide CAS aircraft to it.
---
So in response to the original post, I understand your call for some more teamwork Rag. Having the commander approve ALL laser targets will require maps like Kashan Desert to have a commander to effectively deploy air support, thus adding the requirement for a commander at all times, otherwise no CAS and enemy tanks overun us.
As a frequent CAS pilot, I can only see one downside to this. That is, with the added need for a CO-approval of laser targets, there may be a delay in air support, killing the crucial timing of the laser.
Another downside I see is that on servers where teamwork is abundant(which, unfortunately isn't every server), players form CAS squads to effective run CAS, with a spotter and a pilot. Most of the time, this system already works well, and doesn't need the CO-approval clutter.
ragchan wrote:You obviously dont understand... Ok, let me go in detail. It adds alot of teamwork. Know how the commander can call in jdams??? The jets woud be like that in to, just like in real life. Ex. A squad underattack, a jet is waiting on runway and takes off. Squad leader lazes it, the before jet attacks he gets approval from commander. Then he can drop bombs. It would make jets less lone wolf and more teamwork. I just dont think jets should be so powerful. They need more teamwork added!!!! like in real life. Understand now?
Well, getting permision to fire from the commander would also add more teamwork, but it would be retarded.
Get my point?
Never argue with an idiot, he will just drag you down to his level and beat you by experience
Here's the biggest problem with this: If the CO had to accept laser targets, no bombs would be dropped in public servers. We (pilots) rarely get lases one way or another...
Absolutely no to the idea! Most of the time teams dont even have a commander. I guess nobody want to leave the jets in the hangar just because of that...
I think you didnt think it through either, you just had a bad round...
Jetwhores can't do jack if they are just by themselves, and there is noone calling/spotting targets. So we already have teamwork here. Besides, like you said, you can lase targets without approval of CO, the CO just adds the marker on the map. This sounds pretty much like teamwork right there, since you have someone spotting/lasing(you know you wont get points for lasing a target ,right?), so how will your idea add MORE teamwork to it?
As for adding more realism to the game...maybe, but it will also screw up gameplay(like i said before: no commander).
No you guys just don't understand, you need to have teamwork, because thats why people come to PR, its not the vehcles, weapons, addition of blood or large maps with large view distances, its the teamwork. Its the feeling you get when you recieve your first death threat when you crash your helicopter. Its the warm fuzzies you get from having an anonymous person yell at you to help set a rally point, yet completely ignore the fact that the spot he chose is completely vulnerable. I is the teary pride I feel when a 30 year old clan member kicks me from my squad for not sticking with the squad during a frontal assault on an entrenched position while I destroy an enemy rally point and eliminate half a dozen enemies. Its the awe that I am left with when a Puerto Rican male questions my masculinity and ethnicity because I didn't issue a medic to the squad, and despite repeated warnings, chose to advance on an enemy position with no fire suppot only to turn into a column of red mist. This is why I play PR. This is why everybody should play PR. Its the teamwork.
I wish we had SOFLAMS for tanks, AAVs, and rifles in order to shoot them TEAMWORK = GAMEPLAY. Humvees need a 20 minute spawn time and should appear at rally points, and can only be driveble by the other teams medics to promote cooperation between players. The objective here isn't to kill the enemy and capture objectives, its teamwork. And how can you have teamwork if you're trying to shoot them? I think weapons are bad for gameplay, they promote people trying to do complete objectives instead of working as a team. And I think guns need to be removed as well, because whenever I attack them with my knife I always get shot. ALWAYS. Its not fair for people who like knives to constantly get shot in the head trying to work as a Team.
Or maybe its time to separate the means from the ends...
Last edited by CAS_117 on 2008-05-12 10:26, edited 2 times in total.
Well, if the idea of this post is to have the commander as the sole operator of all air assets and allowing them to fire their weapons would be rather silly... If you have ever watched a real close air support clip from YouTube or LiveLeak from Iraq you'll be fully aware that all airstrikes are coordinated between the pilot and generally the squad leader of the ground troops. The squad leader is frequently seen explaining to the pilot as to where they're located, where the enemy is located and any possible other landmarks nearby that are to be avoided for collateral damage.
However currently in PR we can't even get this much to occur at times. Why? Because most Squad Leaders haven't an idea how to properly call CAS (Close Air Support.) and coordinate things with the commander. Also the fact that if a commander receives an order for CAS it must be accepted immediately without delay unless there is some outstanding reason why this target should not be engaged. The steps are as follows:
1. Take out your G.I.T.D. (Or what was previously referred to as a S.O.F.L.A.M.)
2. Spot the target you wish to have destroyed of with your "Main Radio" button and use the comm rose to identify the target (Example: "Enemy Tank spotted!") and inform the Commander you need the specified target taken out. Then it's the Commander's responsibility to inform the pilot squad of your request.
<Note: Objects that are CAS (Close Air Support) worthy in descending order from most important to least important.
1. Enemy Anti-Aircraft Vehicle/Emplacement
2. Enemy Tank
3. Enemy Armored Personnel Carrier
4. Enemy Command Post
5. Enemy Bunker or Firebase
<Note: Laser guided bombs have little to no effect on Bunkers and Firebases currently.>
6. Enemy Jeep
7. Enemy Support Truck
8. Enemy Troops
3. Then switch to your "Secondary Radio" and place your attack marker on it, then send the commander the "Need Close Air Support" request.
4. It is the Commander's responsibility to understand the importance of speed required in order to make this process work. He must accept the CAS request immediately unless there is a good reason not to. (If the target specified is not of significant value.). If the Commander accepts the request you will see an orange "CAS Marker" appear on the map with 4 arrows pointing inward.
5. At this time it's the Commander's responsibility to inform the pilot squad again of the close air support request and forward the pilot squads attack marker to the "CAS Marker" immediately.
6. The pilot offering the close air support replies with a "On The Way" response from his/her "Main Radio".
7. At this time the rest of the process is in the hands of the squad leader. The squad leader checks the map to see if the aircraft is inbound and lases the target and follows it up with the "Laser Target" voice command in the "Secondary Radio" channel.
<Note: This is where most squad leaders mess up horribly. There is alot of confusion as to what occurs when using the "Laser Target" voice command. But that is all it is... A voice command... It has nothing to do with the laseing of the target other than providing a verbal confirmation. In order to laser properly you must simply use your G.I.T.D. (S.O.F.L.A.M.) like a gun. Point and click, that's it... If done properly you will see a small "Green Box" fly out from the center of the reticule on the G.I.T.D. (S.O.F.L.A.M.) to the target. Be patient, as the "Green Box" actually needs time to fly to the target and attach the marker to the target. Remember to click once... DO NOT click and hold as that is not how it works.
In order to explain what exactly happens when you lase a target, the easiest way to think of it is this... Think of a dart with the tip, the shaft and the tail with the fins.
Diagram:
(Tip sticks to target like C4)
[Target] <-----<<<[::]
(Tail section appears as the "Green Box")
So essentially, when you use the G.I.T.D. (S.O.F.L.A.M.) it fires an invisible dart out which attaches to the vehicle, terrain or anything C4 can stick to and the "Green Box" acts as a beacon for all laser guided missles and bombs track-on to.>
8. If the target is lased properly and the pilot drops the bomb prior to, or while flying over the "CAS Marker" within a distance of no less than 500 meters and no more than 2000 meters above the target, you will finally get to see the fruits of labor.
Or...
Get an officer in your squad to act as the spotter to speak to and coordinate with while your are flying the close air support jet. This will remove about 90% of the guess work and potiential variables present in the current equation... The choice is yours and it's quite clear as to what alternative is the easiest.
CAS_117 is right though, it is all about team work and understanding. If you don't have a Commander you will be screwed. If you don't have an SL spotting targets for you, you'll be screwed. If you go out alone with a jet or a helicopter by without offering a drop of effort to find someone to help you do it the right way, you're screwed. And essentially you'll be completely screwed from accomplishing anything at all... Why? Because you screwed yourself and you wonder why things aren't working.
Teamplay people, it's what PR is about. Help me, help you.
Jaymz
I will put this right out there m8