The biggest problem with online “realism” games.

[BeerHunter]

After giving it some thought, trying to figure out why games such as PRM , ArmedA ,Americas Army etc which are supposed to be “realism” based games all seem to end up playing like CS/DoD it finally dawned on me.

These are basically RPG’s and few actually immerse themselves in the game and play it as it was meant to be played..realistically. Instead they simply bring their normal FPS techniques to the game and barge ahead almost hindered by the developers attempt to instill a sense of realism in their game.

For example, if you are trying to qualify as a pilot in the armed forces and during a simulator training exercise decided to do a barrel roll at 50’ just to see if it can be done, you’d be dropped and out on you arse before the ink on the discharge papers dried.

In RL , in combat , if you see an enemy running into building you certainly wouldn’t simply kick open the door and charge in as there are too many ambush spots inside right? You’d either flag the building as potentially hot or use back up and clearing techniques.

How many times have you seen some player simply go “Hollywood” and charge in guns blazing?? In RL there are established techniques for clearing a building and none of them involve kicking open a door and charging in blind. Not very realistic is it?

Now I realize that the vast majority of gamers online are young, immature and that most lack the imagination to role-play or simply don’t wan to bother. This is no fault of theirs; it’s simply their nature or upbringing.

But it did shed some light on why, every once in a while you get into one of those magical squads in PRM that work as a solid, cohesive unit while quit often you may as well log off and go play CoD4 because that’s what it feels like your playing.

[Killer-Ape]

This may sound corny but “It’s just a game”. If you want better squad play join a good clan, but don’t expect other players on a public server to act as a trained army. And you can’t really judge them. It depends on the mood, sometimes you want to be “that special” role and follow orders like in real life. Sometimes you just want to “play”.

[Rhino]

Americas Army isn't a realism game, it has a little realistic parts to it yes but in the end, its a game to be fun with its prime objective to be a recruiting tool for the US Army.

[Morgan]

I say play insurgent for some fun "hollywood" moments. Nothing like unloading a full clip from an AK whilst yelling crazy death threats through VOIP.

Honestly, if you play a realism game the way it's ment to be played and you beat those players who play it "like COD4", they might twig onto your ideas and start playing realisticly. You know, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

[Sergeant_Banner]

Thats why ArmA rounds can be set to no respawn, and with a 2 hour wait ahead, you DO value your life.

But yes, there is to much "Hollywood" running and gunning atm.

Thanks,
Sarge

[maz.uk]

hollywood arcade vanila wot ever you want to call it is all over pr now ,with the chances of killing some one or being killed is stupid ,iv seen 3 or 4 guys shooting at someone in the open and they dont die YEA right trained soldiers missing so many shots DONT think thats realistic some how, lets hope that version 8 has all this sorted

[Waaah_Wah]

hollywood arcade vanila wot ever you want to call it is all over pr now ,with the chances of killing some one or being killed is stupid ,iv seen 3 or 4 guys shooting at someone in the open and they dont die YEA right trained soldiers missing so many shots DONT think thats realistic some how, lets hope that version 8 has all this sorted

Err... In 0.75 you will hit your target without any problems even if its 200 meters away. The deviation is almost non existant right now

[LekyIRL]

Wait,0.7 is like Hollywood? What was 0.6 then?

[maz.uk]

Err... In 0.75 you will hit your target without any problems even if its 200 meters away. The deviation is almost non existant right now

hahah yea right ahhahahahahahhahahahahahhaha

[Cyrax-Sektor]

At least there aren't tons of people running about bunnyhopping and chucking nades. PR managed to kill nadespam, something that plagued vBF2 and .7. Ejod before, it was like the only thing they knew how to use were nades.

Now, Ejod focuses on urban combat with guns. Had a great round last night where people actually used cover, used suppressive fire and popped smoke to make a screen, and a cunning Spec-Ops took up a rooftop position on West City. MEC actually defended West City taking up positions behind crates, under buildings and behind walls. APC support was also present, nothing like the blasts of HEIT rounds, M16A4s and G3s going at the same time.

Most realistic round I've played to date.

Now I realize that the vast majority of gamers online are young, immature and that most lack the imagination to role-play or simply don’t want to bother. This is no fault of theirs; it’s simply their nature or upbringing.

Not everybody wants to role-play. Sometimes they're in the mood to have fun, and their kind of fun isn't following solid troop formations. However, if a squad member disagrees with your method of playing, they'll often leave and let someone else who may enjoy role-playing.

[=Romagnolo=]

How many times have you seen some player simply go “Hollywood” and charge in guns blazing?? In RL there are established techniques for clearing a building and none of them involve kicking open a door and charging in blind. Not very realistic is it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yIDqCNk6i1o[/youtube]





Look, I understand you. The problem with realistic games is that you dont have fear of dying. If you could add it in a game, you will see how things would change.

[Cyrax-Sektor]

^ People wouldn't play it?

Suppression makes people more cautious. I've kept my head down and slowly inched back to safety from the effect so it could wear off. Before, I could just jump up and headshot my attacker.

[SilvuR]

Realistic games will never be realistic until developers can figure out some way to make the player fear for his life. You can throw in all the ballistics tables you want, make the player movement as blocky and uncomfortable as possible, and record as many 'real' battlefield sounds as you want but it all means nothing if the player isn't truly afraid that he will die if he does something stupid.

He will still try to rush a squad and knife as many people as he can because it's cool and gets him lots of points. He will still roll out into the line of fire with his SAW in hopes of taking that bad guy out before he gets shot too many times. And even if he does there's a medic right there to revive him. Realistic war games, arn't.

[Brummy]

It's so obvious, playing 600 hours of shooting everything that moves and throwing a grenade every 30 seconds is so much more fun than 600 hours of tactical teamwork. Duuuh!

[SiN|ScarFace]

The old games like OG R6 pulled it off. You were usually dead before you could react (ie no prone diving, bunny hopping ect). This is a BF2 mod, BF2 FFS! ArmA has no respawns and like was said, you learn quick not to be the "Hollywood Hero", because you die and then you might as well go play another game.

And like has been said for YEARS, expecting idealism in a public game is setting yourself up to make threads like this one. Private, organized, and officiated games are the only way you will get what you want, IN ANY SPORT/ACTIVITY.

[Waaah_Wah]

hahah yea right ahhahahahahahhahahahahahhaha

If you have the pasience to wait 2 sec before firing you will hit what your aiming at. Do you even play PR? Btw, 0.6 accuracy was NOT realistic no matter how you turn and twist it around

[Rico11b]

Several things come to mind when someone speaks of "problems with realism games" like PR.

First the assault rifles are WAY to uber accurate. Much more so than real world "standard issue" weapons. Head shots are soooooooo common in game (regardless of range) that it isn't even funny anymore. Yes I am aware that the ballistics and such are being worked on at this time. I'm hopeful that they can pull it off.

Secondly there are many issues with the soldier models themselves. For one they are too large physically. I mean 2 meters tall, come on man. That's like 6 feet 7 inches or something like that. Who the hell was the numbskull that came up with that? Thanks again EA/DICE The soldiers STILL walk and sprint to fast. Hell Carl Lewis would be smoked by these guys even while they are carrying a combat load, and weapons. Even NFL's fastest player would get smoked. I won't even discuss the stamina, and their ability to fire their weapons without ever being out of breath or jittery and fatigued.

The player models still run and sprint so fast they you hardly see anyone using smoke or suppressive fire to cover a street or alley way before crossing. Why? Because they know that there walking and sprinting speed provides some measure of protection from being hit. Of course the rifles being uber accurate does cut down on that a bit I suppose

The largest issue is the fact the players are not afraid of getting hit. I'm guilty of it myself. Mostly because it's a nasty Run-N-Gun habit left over from vBF2 and other older games like CS or UT. Old habits die hard I suppose. Problem is, that it's still effective, and it shouldn't be.

It can be impossible to defend against someone that is willing to get themselves shot to hell and gone. Most people play PR with a sort of human wave attack mentality instead of trying to preserve their life in every way possible. Everyone's goal should be dying the LEAST, not killing the MOST. I'm guilty of that sometimes too

[Rico11b]

Now, Ejod focuses on urban combat with guns. Had a great round last night where people actually used cover, used suppressive fire and popped smoke to make a screen, and a cunning Spec-Ops took up a rooftop position on West City. MEC actually defended West City taking up positions behind crates, under buildings and behind walls. APC support was also present, nothing like the blasts of HEIT rounds, M16A4s and G3s going at the same time.

Most realistic round I've played to date.

That sounds like a real treat indeed. That sort of thing so rarely happens. My teammates and I try to play that way, but we hardly ever see anyone else doing it. Even still most times we get overrun by run-n-gunners that aren't afraid of being hit AT ALL. Lots of times we can fight them off, but sometimes we are not so lucky.

Most of the time we end up having to go back to run-n-gun tactics against them just to have a chance. Can't beat'em join'em sort of thing I suppose. Lots of times we have played that way, and then have all of our efforts spoiled by run-n-gun speed freaks.

I say if you can't run, then that will take the RUN out of "Run-N-Gun". If players can not depend on speed to keep them safe they will surely be more thoughtful about how they play.

I remember back in the MOHAA days. I played on a server once that almost completely disabled sprinting, and let me tell you. Run-N-Gun COMPLETELY disappeared. Even though you could respawn in 20 seconds you STILL had to be very thoughtful about were you went and what you did.

There was no way that you could defend on your running/sprinting speeds to save you cause you didn't have any. The sprint you did have only lasted for about 4 seconds. It forced players to become are real lover of cover, and concealment. Spamming was also cut down, just by changing one little thing.

Just by making the player models have more realistic abilities completely changed the way the game was played on that server. That server stayed full from morning to night.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

Also the bf2 model has the viewpoint at chest level, a long way from your actual head/eyes.

Bad peripheral vision, widescreen should be a requirement at least or the forza2 solution of adding extra screens & processing power. 180 degrees with blurring at the edges of the screens instead of the aprox 70 degrees we get now would be nice

[Wolfe]

Reducing the run speed might be a good idea... again.. Wasn't it lowered in the recent past? I agree with Rico; slower run speeds would help reduce run'n gun, and also help prevent speed from being used as an automatic "haha you can't hit me" button. It would also make the maps feel somewhat larger.