Suppression issues...

[GavenJenno]

"My team and I walked slowly through the urban streets of (classified), weapons in the ready position knowing that this was a danger zone. The situation was tense and silent, with the only noise coming from the rattling of our gear and our heavy breathing. I led half of my fire team up the right side of the road, with the other half on the left. We approached an intersection and halted, in unison, both elements ran around the corner and each faced the opposite direction, nothing, it was clear. As we progressed down the street towards the target building I peered down an alleyway and saw a man in a window, with what appeared to be an AK barrel pointed at me. Then all hell broke loose, windows tore open and bullets rattled everywhere, I clicked my trigger twice at the man in the alleyway and saw him drop, and I ordered my team to enter. We sprinted towards the back of the alleyway while our LMG poured fire towards the entrance. We found a door, set up the charges and breached in. As I entered a bullet struck not two inches from my head and impacted the wall next to me."

That's a brief excerpt from my diary of one of my deployments. LOC/DATE:Classified.
When that bullet struck near my head, my vision didn't turn black and I all of the sudden wasn't able to see anything. Now I've had dozens of bullets strike very close to me, but I've never totally lost my sight.
I really don't like the suppression in this game, I do thoroughly enjoy the concept of the loss of vision, because it's just a game, and there's no fear for life, therefore no reason to drop behind a wall. Despite this, I think the complete loss of vision overdoes it, I wouldn't mind seeing it reduced to maybe just a blurring of the screen, enough to distort vision, but not enough to put the operator totally out of action for 4 seconds I believe? Never really counted.

I know I might get flamed for this concept, but being an experienced combat infantryman in real life, I can tell you that this is just severely gamey.

[Mosquill]

I agree. It's not realistic, it doesnt make gameplay better(imo), its fps-dependent and it also has a lot of flaws. I think it should be removed.

[$kelet0r]

until someone else can come up with a better way to get people to duck their heads down when under fire in a virtual environment, we're stuck with it
it may not be pretty but it does the job

[Conman51]

u dont COMPLETLY loose sight..it kinda does have a blurry eefect though

[Death_dx]

I agree. It's not realistic, it doesnt make gameplay better(imo), its fps-dependent and it also has a lot of flaws. I think it should be removed.

/agree

Why is it not enough that the person under LMG fire just gets shot? Why do they need to be blinded? If they do stick their head out and don't get shot then it's the fault of the game not the fault of the player.

[bigwookie]

[quote=""'[R-CON"]Mosquill;677244']I agree. It's not realistic, it doesn't make gameplay better(imo), its fps-dependent and it also has a lot of flaws. I think it should be removed.[/quote]

I agree 100%

[quote="$kelet0r""]until someone else can come up with a better way to get people to duck their heads down when under fire in a virtual environment, we're stuck with it
it may not be pretty but it does the job[/quote]

I don't think it does work in my opinion, there's now more prone diving and bunny hopping then I've ever seen when people get court in it and trying to get away.

[Alex6714]

until someone else can come up with a better way to get people to duck their heads down when under fire in a virtual environment, we're stuck with it
it may not be pretty but it does the job

More accurate weapons...

[bosco_]

More accurate weapons...

Laser-like Riflemen aren't enough for you?

[bigwookie]

i think he probably means remove or reduce deviation which would then mean there's more chance of been hit so a bigger reason to stay in cover.

[Alex6714]

i think he probably means remove or reduce deviation which would then mean there's more chance of been hit so a bigger reason to stay in cover.

You get a cookie.

[LtSoucy]

If your in a insrgent held city, bullet hits next to your head. You will duck, you will get chucks of the wall in your eyes, will will not want to stand up for the fear of your life. Now can someone please explain why it should be removed if the mods name is "Project Reality"? And its being dulled down for 0.8.

[bigwookie]

If your in a insrgent held city, bullet hits next to your head. You will duck, you will get chucks of the wall in your eyes, will will not want to stand up for the fear of your life. Now can someone please explain why it should be removed if the mods name is "Project Reality"? And its being dulled down for 0.8.

because if you use the "Project Reality" argument then its not realistic, in my clan I've members who saw combat in both gulf wars and done tours in NI, Bosnia along with many other shit holes around the world and their opinion is its not realistic in the slightest and that's fact from people who know.

[Bringerof_D]

i think the suppresion effect is fine the way it is, i mean when i get supressed i can see fine in game, just a little blurry, i mean in a game thats the only way to make little johnny take cover instead of playing rambo. if you cant handle firing blind for a few seconds its your loss.

and prone diving is useless if you cant see your target, and if you mean hes running away and prone diving so he's harder to hit so what? soldiers dive and roll IRL.

once again this is a game, it can never be 100% realistic, this is just one of those ways the devs have coped with making people want to stay behind cover when pinned down. if you want little noob spray and pray to come back even when you're laying a lead wall on him go ahead and complain.

[fuzzhead]

GavenJenno: thanks for the feedback and welcome to the forums =)

Watch the effect next time it happens for you, it does not actually black out your entire vision. What it does is block out the SIDES of your vision (giving you a tunnel vision effect) and also the bottom of the screen heavily. However, the top of the screen is still all quite visible and unblurred. What the effect is trying to do is make a player LOOK DOWN, or GET DOWN, cause you can see better out of the top of your screen. After talking to many combat vets, this is the first and most natural reaction they described when taking fire.

Were all well aware that taking incoming fire does not in fact make a person blind for a few seconds. But I think alot of players will agree that the effect has had a considerable impact on the gameplay of PR, in that now when firing your LMG or other sustained suppressive fire at an enemies position of cover, you will make them do what they would do naturally in real life - STAY IN COVER. Before this effect was implemented, suppression fire was practically worthless, and if you actually really did serve in any military, you will know suppression fire is basically the life blood of an infantry unit in a combat situation. This allows for infantry fire and maneuver tactics to finally be used in a game to a certain degree of effectiveness, and I think players are slowly realizing the amount of new tactics that become avaliable when properly utilizing military tactics in game.

There are some problems with the effect, but they are being tweaked, as per earlier dev diary entries.

My only hope is that we can figure a way to make the effect happen when shots are fired ABOVE your head or close to your body, instead of only being triggered when it IMPACTS nearby...

[burghUK]

The supression effect doesn't even work for tons of people because they can't run the game through the exe.

So on behalf of all those people i think it should be removed so we can get back to playing on our favourite server without getting kicked via punkbuster.

[maz.uk]

because if you use the "Project Reality" argument then its not realistic, in my clan I've members who saw combat in both gulf wars and done tours in NI, Bosnia along with many other shit holes around the world and their opinion is its not realistic in the slightest and that's fact from people who know.

100% agree

i understand wot your saying fuzzhead but there is no way you can ever put the felling of being shot in to a game , the way things are going its turning in to a sim and not a fun game ,there is posts everywere about people finding it hard to get a good game now, due to lack of team work ,once in a day you new wot the hole team woz going to do on more or less ever server and every game now its just mayhem ,unless theres a lot of other clans on the server that you can work with and if theres not its a nightmare

[gazzthompson]

the effect is not realistic, no 1 should/have said that, but the end product is realistic. here's a illustration.


IRL:
incoming fire ----- FEAR OF DYING --- suppressed

pre .75
incoming fire --- NO FEAR OF DYING --- no suppression

.75
incoming fire --- IMPAIRED VISION --- forced to find cover ala suppression

people arnt scared of dying ingame, there's no way to simulate that. so if u cant force a player to take cover through fear of dying, u have to make them seek cover the only way possible, make it so they cant return accurate fire.

but please remember the effect is NOT realistic and every 1 knows that, the end product IS (or as close as) realistic.

also, stop complaining about the deviation the weapons are very accurate.

[GavenJenno]

Guys, my idea is it was a GREAT IDEA! I'm not saying remove the system, I'm saying reduce it, you don't go blind, but it reduces it to the point where you're near blind. I just think that it's a little bit too exaggerated, and just needs to be toned down a bit.

Thanks for the welcome!

[Waaah_Wah]

Nobody said that the effect is realistic. The end ressult is

Guys, my idea is it was a GREAT IDEA! I'm not saying remove the system, I'm saying reduce it, you don't go blind, but it reduces it to the point where you're near blind. I just think that it's a little bit too exaggerated, and just needs to be toned down a bit.

Thanks for the welcome!

Use the top of your screen if you want to look around. Though, i wont really advise you to look around when someone is shooting at you

[IAJTHOMAS]

Guys, my idea is it was a GREAT IDEA! I'm not saying remove the system, I'm saying reduce it, you don't go blind, but it reduces it to the point where you're near blind. I just think that it's a little bit too exaggerated, and just needs to be toned down a bit.

Thanks for the welcome!

I get next to sod all supression as it is, unless i fire a SAW at my foot. It because its done on a FPS basis, rather than real time, so reducing it would make the supression next to meaningless for some players.

Further, even if it were done on a time basis, a supression effect that allowed the player to return fire wouldn't be effective in keeping peoples' heads down.

Obviously it needs tweaking as most new introductions do. As has been said, unless we find some way of really making players not want to die, it best thing we have atm to get a semi-realsitic response to coming under fire, even if the means of doing so aren't realistic.