Class Suggestion (LENGTHY!)

[beta]

I like the original class system. It would be way better if you had a specific class for vehicles and stuff.

So you like vanilla BF2's system, but with a "pilot" class added? Just trying to clarify.


Anyways, I'm updating it once again, few more things to explain in (even more!) detail.

[dawdler]

I like the original class system. It would be way better if you had a specific class for vehicles and stuff.

The original class system isnt very realistic I think. Too few options.

But hey, we all want want "better" things... Personally I want a McGuyver class. Swiss army knife as primary weapon. Ducttape, some piece of string and a paperclip as secondary. As special weapon he has a rusty metal pipe for blowing up tanks with.

[beta]

I have just been brainstorming on how to make the HMG and Mortar classes work ...

For the Mortar class, it's fairly straightforward.

You would have the keys for knife, PDW, individual bandages, then you would have two more keys. They would be the "destructor" or "pick up" weapon, would work like the wrench does on landmines, and then the actual mortar itself.

The "destructor" would put the mortar back into your kit.

For the HMG class, I had an idea for improving it's effectiveness vs. getting shot in it. Having different "heights" the HMG would be set at. There would be the prone height, your avatar mans the MG while prone, the crouching height, your avatar mans the MG while crouching (this height would be sufficient to barely see over sandbag and bunker walls), and there would be the standing height, this would be used for setting up to see through windows, and over other tall obstacles. The kit would have the knife, PDW, individual bandages, the "destructor" weapon, then the HMG itself. To accomplish the multiple heights, I was thinking if it would be possible to use the "fire mode" selection code, instead of auto, burst and single, it would be prone, crouching, and standing.


Just some ideas on how to make these deployable weapons feasible.

Edit - Typos ...

[mav3r1c]

The original class system isnt very realistic I think. Too few options.

But hey, we all want want "better" things... Personally I want a McGuyver class. Swiss army knife as primary weapon. Ducttape, some piece of string and a paperclip as secondary. As special weapon he has a rusty metal pipe for blowing up tanks with.

I'm sorry for not being specific, I meant the original class system posted on these boards, not the vanilla class system.

[Pence]

"PILOT CLASS
------------
Air Crew - Pistol - 2 + 1 mags
- 1 RED smoke grenade
- Binoculars"

Pwnt! 1 red smoke granade if his aircraft is destroyed and he managed to bail out (Red signals; RESCUE MY DOWNED A**) Only pilot's should have a parachute unless PR inplements Ejection seats!

Or mabey a PARA class too, being able to parachute from a Merlin LALO drop.

I am also loveing the Scout class, he should be able to drive scout vehicals like the Sabre and instead of a carbine just give him an assault rifle (L85A2, M16, AK-101 or AK-47/74).

The way the Engineer carrys AP mines too is good; Setting up an ambush almost requires anti-personal mines, when ambushing a armoured collum lay anti-armour mines on the route they will take and around the flanks to stop the vehicals from dispersing then anti personal mines in front of your position to stop the rushing troops, all the wile your anti-armour groups are destroying the rear vehicals first and then the stationary tanks with positioned MILAN. Makeing the BMP's tradeable for scrap are your lighter anti-armour weapons.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

I think the class system for PRMM should be re-done.

Now, we've got 8 classes, right? Each of them has an unlock, right? So, basically, there are 16 available kits.

I've got a nice long list of my recomendations for those kits:

NOTE: ALL classes have: knife, 2 individual bandages

*REVISION 3*


RIFLEMAN CLASS
----------------
Rifleman - Assualt Rifle - 8 + 1 mags
- 4 hand grenades
- 2 smoke grenades
- 2 ammo bags

Sharpshooter - Assualt Rifle - 8 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 1 ammo bag


SPECIALIST CLASS
------------------
Grenadier - Assualt Rifle w/ grenade launcher - 6 + 1 mags
- 5 + 1 grenades
- 2 smoke grenades

Light AT - Assualt Rifle - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 2 smoke grenades
- 1 Light Anti-Armour Weapon


AUTOMATIC RIFLEMAN CLASS
----------------------------
LMG Gunner - LMG - 2 + 1 box mags

LMG Spotter - Assualt Rifle - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 2 box mag ammo packs
- Binoculars


COMBAT SUPPORT CLASS
------------------------
Combat Medic - Assualt Rifle - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 smoke grenades
- defibulator - 2 + 1 batteries
- 15 bandages

Combat Engineer - Carbine - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 4 C4 packs
- 2 AT mines
- 2 AP mines


FIRE SUPPORT CLASS
--------------------
Mortar - PDW - 2 + 1 mags
- deployable mortar - 9 + 1 rounds
- 1 deployable mortar rearm

HMG - PDW - 2 + 1 mags
- deployable HMG - 200 round belt
- 2 deployable HMG rearms


ANTI-VEHICLE CLASS
--------------------
AT - PDW - 2 + 1 mags
- portable AT system - 2 + 1 rounds
- Binoculars

AA - PDW - 2 + 1 mags
- portable AA system - 1 + 1 rounds
- Binoculars


PILOT CLASS
------------
Air Crew - Pistol - 2 + 1 mags
- 1 RED smoke grenade
- Binoculars

Armour Crew - Pistol - 2 + 1 mags
- 1 GREEN smoke grenade
- Binoculars


RECON CLASS
-------------
Scout - Carbine w/ scope - 4 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- laser designator

Sniper - Sniper Rifle - 3 + 1 mags
- Binoculars



Now, obviously some of this needs explaining.


Acronyms
---------
LMG = Light Machine Gun
HMG = Heavy Machine Gun
PDW = Personal Defense Weapon
AT = Anti-Tank
AA = Anti-Air
AP = Anti-Personnel
SL = Squad Leader
LGB = Laser Guided Bomb
MLRS = Mobile Rocket Launch System


Some extra Notes:
-----------------

-Air Crew pilot jets and helos
-Ground Crew pilot MBTs, APCs, other armoured vehicles
-Anyone can pilot Transports, HMGs, Mortars
-All kits can be passengers on vehicles (APCs, Helis, etc.)
-Batteries on Defibulators have 5 uses per charge
-Individual bandages are used on the player, no one else
-Combat Medics CANNOT heal themselves with the medic bandages
-Supply Trucks and Supply Crates re-arm all kits (not vehicles)
-Vehicles resupply and repaired at special "stations" (garages, hangars, etc.)
-Rifleman ammo bags DO NOT re-arm LMGs, only re-arms mags, hand grenades, and smoke grenades
-ONLY box mag ammo bags and Supply Crates/Trucks re-arm LMGs
-Both types of ammo bags MUST be dropped to be used
-No wrench, only repairs are done at repair stations
-ALL classes have finite resources, they MUST be resupplied to continue to fight effectively
-Mortar and HMG re-arms work like the wrench, click and hold, 10 seconds to re-arm the HMG, 20 seconds to re-arm the Mortar
-Mortars use the Artillery system (interim until we get some REAL artillery )

Removed the OFFICER class because of lack of class restriction, this could lead to 15 Platoon Leaders


MEDIC SYSTEM:
Defibulators revive the player to 25% health, under 50% health lethal bleeding begins. The individual bandage heals to 50%, the medic to 75%. Bandage healing is NOT stackable. To get the player's health to 100%, the player must heal at a medical vehicle/building.

ARTILLERY SYSTEM:
Similar to BF1942's system, artillery's scope has elevation and rotation "meters". When a request is made, coloured (different for each request) lines are displayed on the "meters" to show where the target area is. When the colured lines are put into the middle of each "meter", firing will result in a round on the target area.

LASER DESIGNATOR SYSTEM:
Click to turn it on, wherever it "hits" in the game world (limit to 500m, to prevent problems) will create a "lockable target", like the heat sources (jets, helis, oil flame), except this "lockable target" is used to LGBs and other laser guided munitions. Replace the "dumbfire" bombs on jets with LGBs, they cans till be dropped "blind", but with a laser designator, they will be VERY accurate. This can also be used for missles and rockets fire from MLRS's (and equivalent opposing army systems), and (at least for the US forces) laser guided artillery rounds (the regular "cannon" rounds that is).


Now since I have seen a couple of times the Devs say that Class Restricing is NOT POSSIBLE, I decided to come up with this as an option for a more balanced team. The key is to make a squad need a variety of classes to be the most effective.

For example, say a squad of 6 says "Screw you beta, we're going to have 6 LMG Gunners!", now, they will have an impressive amount of firepower, but no grenades (smoke or frag) and won't be able to heal eachother.

Now this system is far from perfect, it needs some rigorous testing (playtesting and otherwise) to find its flaws, but I think diversifying the classes is the way to go to get a good, balanced system.


Well, that's my idea. Comment.

There really is no need for all this. The classes you listed are just the same ones minus a nade or ammo bag. We have all the basic weapons and classes we need and where would all those people fit in a squad?

Why not just give each class a different weapon in teh unlock place that could be used for different situations such as

Assualt option 1/heavy assault/medium range
M16/AK
greande launcher
2 smoke grenades
knife
armor

Assualt option 2/CQB assault
Short nosed Assualt Rifles like the Fn SCAR-H/M16 ACOG/Red Dot/Reflex/M4 with different sights
2 flashbangs
hand grenades
armor
knife

assualt option 3/long range assault
The M16 rifle with the scope from the modeling/Acog/scope or M14
armor
knife

Special Ops option 1/long range
FN SCAR-L or other special forces carbine/M4 ACOG/M4 SOPMOD
C4
knife
grenades
binoculars for spotting enemies behind enemy lines/scouting

Special Ops 2/ CQB
FN-Scar-L/anotehr carbine model?
flashbangs
grenades
knife
(C4 is not as useful, so give them flashes for quick getaway or small raids)

Engineer option 1/standard armor class
wrench
shotgun
knife
mines

engineer option 2/pilot class
flight suit/just a look
.45 or .40 caliber pistol
knife
parachute
binoculars in case of ditch

medic class has standard assualt rifle maybe with a red dot sight or acog

support class has standard MG but has to hold ammo bag to reload others

sniper class has binoculars

Just some ideas to put out there.

[Vantskruv]

Ooooohhh, I'm yearning so, I'm yearning so.

You guys are doing a great job, keep it up.

Ooooohhh, I'm yearning so, I'm yearning so.

[Maj.b00bz]

Now I've always thought it was very gamey to blow up a bride and then fix it with a wrench. However, if there's no wrench then how do bridges get "repaired" after they've been destroyed? Wil they be permenantly destroyed in the context of the game map? There by making them strategic assets to be defended?

Do we make bridges harder to destroy? Say like 8 C4 packs? Or do we have a bridge-layer vehicle added at some point to counter act the blown bridge?

[eggman]

Love this discusssion!

Note that uh.... I have an idea that can actually compliment this quite significantly. I won't share it because I am not sure if it can be done yet. And if it can be done, and we decide to do it.... we'll try keep *something* as a surprise!

One note... right now it's not possible to change the entire loadout with the unlock afaik. Just the primary weapon.

So the AA being traded out for AT works, but I don't think the Combat Support class is workable with how the BF2 engine handles swapping out the unlock kit.

I'd also really like to see squads of 8, but it's looking like this is hard coded.

Again, good discussion!

egg

[00SoldierofFortune00]

A squad of 8 would be pretty horrible for stealth and keeping them controlled. It is already hard to control 6 guys and get them to listen to you.

And if you have good squad diversity such as

2medics
1support
2assault
1AT

you will last a long time. Upping squad numbers will only get more snipers and engineers in the squads which are really useless for squads and would stop making them lone wolve assets which they are. More squads of 4 are better than a couple of 8 man squads which are led by bad leaders.

[six7]

i love the ideas beta! instead of having an LMG assistant, just allow the rifleman calss to carry a bag of LMG ammo as well as a bag of rifle ammo (this would make the rifleman class more widly used)

[fuzzhead]

yea six7 good suggestion.

i would like to see 8 man squads as well.

although Id also like to see 128 player servers (pipe dream)

[Figisaacnewton]

If 8 man squads are not workable, turn em into 4, and call em fireteams.

[eggman]

Pretty much every military in the world bases squads around fireteams of 2, bricks of 4 and squads of 8.

In the BF2 context, all the stock server/map configurations are divisible by 8.

I have no idea why or where the idea of 6 man squads ever came from (I doubt it was "playtesting" heh).

If we can figure out a way to do it we'll likely go with 8 man squads, but can't seem to find a way yet.

egg

[angus]

Is there something that I am missing about "only changing the primary weapon with unlock"

Check the stock US assault tweak. It uses add and replace lines for items 3 and 4 (rifle and grenade).

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.create ItemContainer UnlockUSAssault
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate usrif_G3A3
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrif_m203
Objecttemplate.addTemplate ushgr_m67
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrgl_m203
ObjectTemplate.unlockLevel 1

ObjectTemplate.create ItemContainer UnlockUSAssault2
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate sasrif_fn2000
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrif_m203
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrif_G3A3
Objecttemplate.addTemplate sasgr_fn2000
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrgl_m203
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem ushgr_m67
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate nshgr_flashbang
Objecttemplate.replaceItem ushgr_smoke
ObjectTemplate.unlockLevel 2

[Pence]

Will there be an official explonation of what the class system will be like, i rerly think beta's idea is well worth the effort in terms of squad play and a sacled down version of it could be aprocable?.

The Rifleman, Pilot, AT, Specialist, Recon and Suport class ideas should definetly be inplemented but they should all only carry one bag (if any).

[the.ultimate.maverick]

To me: there is way too much kit in you proposed list!

I cannot imagine anough pockets to be able to store all the nades etc in a battle so they can not be dangerous and also removable in the 2 seconds it take on BF2. Also, the whole point is that PRMM should be realistic, street battles are never planned - nobody likes them - so you should have limited ammo and have to conserve ammo to do well. THis also makes support and resupply more important.

A few other points : smoke sucks in BF2 n isnt that improved in PRMM it is not effective enough and goes as soon as it is laid down. I would suggest Assault get flashbangs instead - much more widely used.

For AT - you seen what an AT weapon/ammo looks like?! Get some images and then rethink your kitting out.

For scouts - they shouldn't have laser designators - unrealistic.

Snipers should get more mags - and trip wire?!

Nice idea with mortar tho

If this sounds aggressive - sorry! just my 2 cents and please ask me qs on what i said

[Pence]

Scout's getting Laser designator is quite realistic if an OP is comprimised then awaiting artillery will cover the mens retreat or if the OP was sent in to assinge artillery a fire point then they will need the tools to do that, conventional or Laser targeting systems.

I think that if your in an AS90 then you can be assined by scouts were to fire.