Squad Fireteam Idea/Suggestion

[00SoldierofFortune00]

I have been against the whole "fireteam" thing for the longest because it usually doesn't work out after first contact or first dying since it is pretty hard to see the other 2 people in your fireteam after because the names do not render etc. But I have thought of a way to fix this problem.

What I was thinking of, if it is even possible, is that the SL would just has to click on the player's name in the squad menu and 1 click would change it to red, the next click change it to gold, second click changes it back to white which is already ingame.

Now, there are either two ways to do this if possible.

1. Once the SL clicks on player 1's name in the squad menu, his marker on the map changes to red or blue if clicked twice.

2. If that is not possible, then I suggest when the SL clicks on the names, the person stays green, but the outline around them becomes red or gold.

This basically allows me to designate fireteams in my squad.

Teamwork or Marines (what I call my squads)

Officer
SAW
Light AT
HAT
Corpsman/Medic
Rifleman w/optics


This is how it would look if I clicked on the names above in the squad menu

Teamwork or Marines (what I call my squads)

Officer- red
SAW- red
Light AT- red
HAT- gold
Corpsman/Medic- gold
Rifleman w/optics- gold


Basically, allows the members of the squad to look on their map, and if they are in the red fireteam, they will be able to locate the other red fireteam members on their maps and the gold ones and it helps them better stick together rather then calling out by name everyone and telling them what fireteams to get into etc. which waste time and never works because once you get seperated (and trust me, you will when there is action), it makes it hard to regroup. This way, you can just look on the minimap and find who you are supposed to stick close to and if the SL doesn't want fireteams, he can just switch back to all green. It would also help if the squad member's tags ingame were able to be changed to these colors and made bright so that everyone in the squad could find each other easily and actually just look to the side and know their fireteam is there while fighting. Everyone else on the map remains in the blue mob and this doesn't concern them.

[SGT.JOKER]

I like the idea allot, Ive done it before and Ive had squad leaders who have done things simmilar, but without proper designation its really hard to get it working right. One SL I had once suggested using TS to do this but it would have taken to long.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

I like the idea allot, Ive done it before and Ive had squad leaders who have done things simmilar, but without proper designation its really hard to get it working right. One SL I had once suggested using TS to do this but it would have taken to long.

Yea, this eliminates those problems.The problems with using TS and VOIP is that it is still hard to locate your fireteam members. With this, just look on the map and you know where they are.

[Smegburt_funkledink]

When I'm Squad leader, I'll usually highlight my medic and/or marksman/sniper in the "squad map". Simply click the names you want whilst holding ctrl (methinx). This highlights them in white instead of green.

Then, if I see one of those highlighted members taking "point" or leading the squad, I'll put them back in line.

I use this method all the time to check my squaddies are where they should be.

If you're in a fireteam of three, simply highlight the other two and you can't loose them!

[nedlands1]

Good idea. I'm always telling my squad to pair up but it often falls apart because of this very reason.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

When I'm Squad leader, I'll usually highlight my medic and/or marksman/sniper in the "squad map". Simply click the names you want whilst holding ctrl (methinx). This highlights them in white instead of green.

Then, if I see one of those highlighted members taking "point" or leading the squad, I'll put them back in line.

I use this method all the time to check my squaddies are where they should be.

If you're in a fireteam of three, simply highlight the other two and you can't loose them!

That only works for the person clicking on them. If they don't know how to make a fireteam structure or are new or don't usually create fireteams, they won't know what to do. This lets the SL sort them out easily so that everyone can see what the SL has designated. Trying to sort everyone into fireteams and telling them to click etc. would waste at least 5 minutes, this gets it done quickly and painlessly.

I also suggested making their tags more visible so that they could stick together more easily and I don't believe the tags show up as white when you see that player face to face.

[ostupidman]

Love the idea. Hope it's possible.

[AnRK]

Yup, can't really say much that's all that constructive but it's good. Although it'd be kinda nice to perhaps have other squads names marked with numbers (although smaller then the SLs obviously) if some effort was been put into revamping the tags system. Also increasing the rendering distance as has been mentioned would be nice.

[LtSoucy]

Good idea, i have done it before in the 0.6 BETA and recorded it.


YouTube - NRF pubbing

really helps alot.

[Smegburt_funkledink]

That only works for the person clicking on them. If they don't know how to make a fireteam structure or are new or don't usually create fireteams, they won't know what to do. This lets the SL sort them out easily so that everyone can see what the SL has designated. Trying to sort everyone into fireteams and telling them to click etc. would waste at least 5 minutes, this gets it done quickly and painlessly.

I also suggested making their tags more visible so that they could stick together more easily and I don't believe the tags show up as white when you see that player face to face.

Yeah, Mr Fortune, sorry. I wasn't disregarding your idea, It's a gooden. I understand that if your idea is used, it wont be implemented today. I was just giving a tip on how to "mark" several members of your team for now.

Edit: If we're talking about making the "3d hud" tags more visible, I'm not so much for it.
I love how 0.7 has almost nothing on screen, a near empty H.U.D.
The compass is enough, seeing which direction your squad members are in is another, having more visible tags on screen to help see exactly where your buddy is stood behind a wall doesn't = realism.

Different colours for fireteams would be sweet.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Yeah, Mr Fortune, sorry. I wasn't disregarding your idea, It's a gooden. I understand that if your idea is used, it wont be implemented today. I was just giving a tip on how to "mark" several members of your team for now.

Edit: If we're talking about making the "3d hud" tags more visible, I'm not so much for it.
I love how 0.7 has almost nothing on screen, a near empty H.U.D.
The compass is enough, seeing which direction your squad members are in is another, having more visible tags on screen to help see exactly where your buddy is stood behind a wall doesn't = realism.

Different colours for fireteams would be sweet.

I didn't say everyone would have a visible tag, but your squad definately should, especially if it is an urban map where plenty of people are running around and it maybe hard to relocate or regroup with your squad.

[gclark03]

Does situational awareness = realism?

[AnRK]

Well in PR we don't have a different model for every player (as cool as it would be to have individual skins with all manners of **** on them for all of us) so we need some sort of representation of who people are.

[PFunk]

Does situational awareness = realism?

Depends on which degree you want to take it.

The problem with computer games is that they might be getting better graphics with remarkably better visual fidelity (therefore making situational awareness better and more realistic) but there is still lacking a few basic perceptions of reality which are given to us by human senses that can't be replicated by today's computers.

Primarily I'd single out peripheral vision, combined with the lack of independent movement of the head from the body (being remedied today with the new Track IR technology but not for BF2 sadly) which makes it remarkably difficult to see around you easily without losing focus on whats right in front of you.

Theres also the fact that we all can't have excellent sound cards with expensive speakers to give us perfect directional awareness of our surroundings.

So what then does a game designer do? He creates a design conceit which fills the void by, in one way or another, replicating the absent reality. Most commonly that would be described as a HUD which provides you with information you could have without much effort in real life.

So I'd say that improving situational awareness is important to the game, not to mention the SL as not only is it necessary for his best leadership but is also becoming a real part of modern battlefields.

After that its all a matter of balance so that the conceit isn't more powerful than what its meant to be recreating.

[Bringerof_D]

i dont think this is really worth the time, i split my squads into fireteams all the time. except theya re only temporary for example i want 1 and 2 to supress 3 and 4 to charge the enemy whilst 5 and i would flank.

as well IRL if you were to be seperated to your squad members you wouldnt be able to pull up a map to find them, if it were up to me i would have everything removed from the map except the map itself

[00SoldierofFortune00]

i dont think this is really worth the time, i split my squads into fireteams all the time. except theya re only temporary for example i want 1 and 2 to supress 3 and 4 to charge the enemy whilst 5 and i would flank.

as well IRL if you were to be seperated to your squad members you wouldnt be able to pull up a map to find them, if it were up to me i would have everything removed from the map except the map itself

This game is nothing like real life and just as PFunk said, you can't recreate situation awareness in a game. If I yell at the top of my lungs into the mic, you think you will know that I am behind that wall or from
direction I am yelling from? No. If I say I am behind a wall, you think you are magically going to know "which wall" I am behind? No, so the mini-map and my suggestions take care of that.

And if you are in a fast paced firefight, you think you are going to magically tell your squad members to flank, suppressing fire, etc. when they can't even locate the other member in their fireteam? No. Knowing where they are, and already been assigned into a fireteam actually makes fireteams practical. People will say they do it all the time, but if you are actually facing a competitent enemy who is using suppressing fire, frags, and moving on you quickly, you are not going to have time to make effective use of fireteams the way they are now.

[Bringerof_D]

i would like to mention that it wasnt a bad idea, i just dont think its really worth the effort by comparison to the other things the devs have to do

a hot fight is where i've done this, i wouldnt have mentioned it otherwise, when you order your men to stay close to each other its easy. we were pinned down by 1 support gunner and a grenadier. 2 of my guys were across the road i call the names tell them to move up and its done, simple as that! if you tell the team to stick together in teams of 2 thats even easier. if you're smart enough to keep up with your group and not fuk around for kills and have enough of an attention span to simply talk to them every now and again regrouping after seperation is easy.

as a squad leader it is your resposibility to make sure your men keep track of themselves and their teammates. situational awareness is almost unecesary in the game, unless i'm looking for a specific building or distance i rarely ever even look at the map. only time you really need to know where your squad is, is when you're spawning in

and do you think that IRL that you can hear a man yelling from the other side of a wall over the gunfire? absolutely not. even distant gunfire 3-4 blocks away you'll be too busy listening to that then the man yelling, he'll only be a little whimper among the bangs.

so before you complain about situational awareness try thinkin, "hmm, maybe i should have turned to my right just an inch to check on my friend there instead of trying to hoard a bunch of kills for myself, maybe i should have said over the radio lots of enemies, left side of the road."

[00SoldierofFortune00]

i would like to mention that it wasnt a bad idea, i just dont think its really worth the effort by comparison to the other things the devs have to do

What, new weapons and other things that won't have any effect on gameplay?

a hot fight is where i've done this, i wouldnt have mentioned it otherwise, when you order your men to stay close to each other its easy. we were pinned down by 1 support gunner and a grenadier. 2 of my guys were across the road i call the names tell them to move up and its done, simple as that! if you tell the team to stick together in teams of 2 thats even easier. if you're smart enough to keep up with your group and not fuk around for kills and have enough of an attention span to simply talk to them every now and again regrouping after seperation is easy.

It has nothing to do with attention span at all or kills, it has to do with limitations within the game engine and everyone acknowledges that. Sure, your men were across the street WHERE YOU COULD SEE THEM. Being across the street is a big difference from being around the corner, in a building, on a roof, or where the SL cannot see you because the tags don't show. And try doing this in urban combat too against a competentent enemy. I've done and seen this done in the PR Tournament before, and fireteams never work out because the battle changes that much. When I have seen a whole squad moving tactically together, we still took them out as insurgents because they were too bunched up.

The point is, your sceanrio(sp?) doesn't address different situations or how the battlefield changes in 5 seconds. In a perfect game that would be possible, but most games are not perfect. People join and leave the squad constantly, the enemy employs tactics that seem cheap like nade/AT/rpg spam which force your men to stay spread out, vehicles, etc. and environmental problems like hills, buildings, or trees get in the way etc.

I am not knocking the way you do fireteams, but it is just impractical for the majority of situations and I have yet to see a SL successfully in PR from any of the versions successfully use them on a regular basis against a competent enemy, especially in the tournament.

as a squad leader it is your resposibility to make sure your men keep track of themselves and their teammates. situational awareness is almost unecesary in the game, unless i'm looking for a specific building or distance i rarely ever even look at the map. only time you really need to know where your squad is, is when you're spawning in

Situation awareness almost unnecesarry? Try playing this game without a minimap, get into a big fireteam, and then try to regroup with your men and then tell me this game has situational awareness. Try sending your men around a corner while you cover, then try to find them easily if they get seperated. It isn't going to happen and if it has, you must of not had that very tough of an enemy. This is not real life! You simply cannot tell your men to regroup on that street because you don't know the name or the exact location. And anyone can say it is your responsibility etc. etc. to keep your squad together, but it isn't always the SL's fault when players are new, get lost while being engaged, or are splitting up and then get seperated.

and do you think that IRL that you can hear a man yelling from the other side of a wall over the gunfire? absolutely not. even distant gunfire 3-4 blocks away you'll be too busy listening to that then the man yelling, he'll only be a little whimper among the bangs.

That's why you yell and they have mics IRL, so it is possible. Why do you think they tell you to yell in bootcamp? It's stupid then, but it has a purpose. And this is not real life either, you lack the situation awareness in this game to know what you are doing all the time unless you open your minimap constantly.

o before you complain about situational awareness try thinkin, "hmm, maybe i should have turned to my right just an inch to check on my friend there instead of trying to hoard a bunch of kills for myself, maybe i should have said over the radio lots of enemies, left side of the road."

LOL what? That makes no sense what so ever. The point here is about fireteams. What you are talking about is a whole squad at one location fighting an enemy. Having a squad together is pretty easy, but they are also easy to frag, get naded, or spammed. That's why I have my fireteam suggestion. The point of having bright squad name tags and fireteams colors and designations by the SL is so that you can stay a little spreadout and seperated or flank, but know where each other are without always popping open the minimap. You think you will know your man is there if there is a slight hill seperating you? No, the tags don't render. Even if you do have to pop open the minimap anyway, this suggestion still makes it easy for each member to know his fireteam leader.

The people who join a squad in the beginning are not going to be the people in the squad at the end, they change out all the time. Doing this saves time and breaks it down barney style for the player because they are usually too busy playing the game or being ingaged to find out who is in their fireteam and supposed to be helping them.

[kilroy0097]

A nice added bonus would be to extend the Squad Member green arrows on the screen to extend out to a larger range again. Whatever they are now they need to double the distance.

I for one think the idea of assigning fireteams is a good one. A bit micromanaging but good. As for situational awareness the game in it's current form does not have any unless squad mates are close enough to show green arrows for them. Otherwise you MUST use the map to figure out where everyone is. In agreement with Soldier, you try finding your entire squad on EJOD in the city or Fool's Road in the forests somewhere after getting separated without using your map or ordering your squad to move to a point marker. You would be playing hide and seek all day long.

[AnRK]

A bit micromanaging but good.

The whole point of a fireteam is that it has the opposite effect. People follow fireteam leaders and through that an officer can order a fireteam, not 3 individuals.