Suggestion for sniper class...

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-09 22:36

As we all know, the sniper class is being used in a very unrealistic way. It is being used in a role that a designated marksman would typically play, and this is not appropriate for a realism mod.

The sniper class should be extremely ineffective in CQB. The sniper class should have two primary functions - a. taking out key targets, such as mortar operators, HMG gunners, squad leaders, anti-tank personnel, etc from long range b. reconaissance. They need to give accurate data to their team regarding enemy locations, movements, etc.

It would be very appropriate for the sniper class to be made nearly obsolete when the sniper is standing or crouching. He should have a decent ability to take out enemies when prone, but not as good as when he has his bipod set up (deviation would be extremely miniscule/scope would move around, it the BF2 engine enables it). I think it should take 6-10 seconds for the sniper to set up his bipod, get his body into the proper position for firing, and focus in on the scope. This would force players to find a good location, set themselves up, and take out a key target.

BLind · Post by **BLind** » 2006-03-09 22:53

Cerberus wrote:As we all know, the sniper class is being used in a very unrealistic way. It is being used in a role that a designated marksman would typically play, and this is not appropriate for a realism mod.

strange, most of the snipers i see are hiding on rooftops, cranes or amongst other concealment.

The sniper class should be extremely ineffective in CQB. The sniper class should have two primary functions - a. taking out key targets, such as mortar operators, HMG gunners, squad leaders, anti-tank personnel, etc from long range b. reconaissance. They need to give accurate data to their team regarding enemy locations, movements, etc.

ok the sniper is already **** in CQB, u want to take away his pistol aswell ? as for target selection then it is up the player to decide who takes the first bullet, and tbh good targets can be few and far between so any1 is fair game. as for reconaissance then agen its up to the player to choose whether he wants to be a team player or not, the first thing i do in a map is get high and spot everything within sight. theres not really a way to force people to do this, just as theres no way to force medics to revvive thier teamates, its just something that is done by those who want to function as part of the team.

It would be very appropriate for the sniper class to be made nearly obsolete when the sniper is standing or crouching. He should have a decent ability to take out enemies when prone, but not as good as when he has his bipod set up (deviation would be extremely miniscule/scope would move around, it the BF2 engine enables it). I think it should take 6-10 seconds for the sniper to set up his bipod, get his body into the proper position for firing, and focus in on the scope. This would force players to find a good location, set themselves up, and take out a key target.

why should a sniper be unable to fire from crouched positions, arent snipers trained to fire accuractly from a variety of crouched positions ?, also 6 - 10 seconds is an age in this game, considering a saw gunner can hit the dirt and start fireing perfectly well within lets say ...... a quater of a second ?.

imo 5 seconds would be suitable if all the other classes were to suffer from the same affects, with say a light machine gunner having the same 5 second penalty with the time it takes to ready ur weapon decreasing with the size/weapon of the weapon. so basically if a saw gunner comes up agenst a mec spec ops and they both prone at the same time, the mec guy is gonna be able to start shooting first.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-09 23:04

I never said they'd be unable to fire from a crouched position, I just said they wouldn't be effective. Perhaps deviation when crouched would reach its minimum after about three to five seconds (when remaining still), then it would begin increasing again

Well, the SAW gunners shouldn't be able hit the dirt in less than a second, look through his sights, and fire away

Having a 5 - 10 second delay would force people to conceal themselves very well and take their time. They wouldn't be able to just run around to a dozen different places. The sniper class would require a very dedicated player

I'd like to see a 3 - 5 second delay for setting up heavy machine guns (for example, the M240)

BLind · Post by **BLind** » 2006-03-09 23:14

sry wen i sed "why should a sniper be unable to fire from crouched positions" i should have sed effectively, i still believe that firing from a crouched position should be relatively effective (as in be able to hit a man sized target at long/mid range).. myabe have a 2 - 3 delay on it becoming accurate to stop shoot and scoot style tactics.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-09 23:26

Define long.

My definition in BF2 is from the top of the building with the machine gun by the hotel on Mashtuur to the west side of the mosque. You shouldn't be able to hit a target that far away(in one shot) while crouched.

BLind · Post by **BLind** » 2006-03-09 23:39

i was thinking you should be able to hit a man sized target at this kind of range while crouched with an m24 if you held the crosshairs still for a second. forget hes in a tank for the moment, just imagine a normal sized human target. (if u know what i mean)

its from the small building with steps on usmc side of oman to roughly the city capture point on mec side.

Post by **Katarn** » 2006-03-09 23:53

Yes, that seems quite reasonable. What really gets me is I can't even hit that-size target while prone at that range. (ATM)

BLind · Post by **BLind** » 2006-03-09 23:56

lol yup, rite after i took that pic i was deuling with a mec sniper that was prone in the small field just to the left of the road (about half the distance), he was right in the middle of it in full view shooting at me, took me 6 proned shots to kill the guy !!!, luky i had set it to easy to take the screenie

u'd get more accuracucy out of a bloody shotgun

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-10 00:48

I think long-range would be considered on the hill behind the tank. But, hey, that's just me.

Katarn, I forgot you were a dev

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-03-10 02:58

I'm pretty sure a sniper would be able to shoot accurately standing and while crouching at a pretty decent range. I meen, if my grandpa could hit a target at 50m away, with a pistol, 98 times out of 100, while shooting at with his left hand(not his primary), and while standing(yes, he did actually do this), I would say it's a pretty fair to assume a well trained sniper with a sniper rifle could shoot accurately at least up to 200m while standing our crouching. If he took a careful, well aimed shot, while prone he should techinically be able to hit a target at 1km or over. The only problem is the scope probably would make this shot near impossible. Also, the fog of war in BF2 would prevent this kind of shot.

So, if the sniper can't be made to shoot at his full potential, why even have him? The marksman class is a far better solution then having a true sniper class.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-10 04:05

Because my idea is an alternative solution to completely ****ing up the deviation in all stances to stop people from whoring the sniper class. It will actually be useful this way (Well, the M24 is the only useless one)

BLind · Post by **BLind** » 2006-03-10 09:39

lonelyjew wrote: So, if the sniper can't be made to shoot at his full potential, why even have him? The marksman class is a far better solution then having a true sniper class.

because whats a combat game without the snipers, the marksman class is simply gonna be a mec/pla sniper minus the ghillie suit.

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-03-10 09:54

That's just it, a has been suggested a hundred times now. Have a marksman class, then have the ability to pick up a sniper kit's, much as the Desert Combat and PoE mod's did.
So, at the Main USMC spawn there's a sort of armoury building, with maybe 2 sniper kits, along with ghillie suits etc.
This way, there are sniper's around, but they arent being overly used.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-03-10 09:57

JellyBelly wrote:That's just it, a has been suggested a hundred times now. Have a marksman class, then have the ability to pick up a sniper kit's, much as the Desert Combat team did.
So eg, at the Main USMC spawn there's a sort of armoury building, with maybe 2 sniper kits, along with ghillie suits etc. This way, there are sniper's around, but they arent being overly used.

Think the devs should bring in a blockign system into the froum to stop topics being made about snipers and the m24.

Zepheris Casull · Post by **Zepheris Casull** » 2006-03-10 11:40

it's a pitty that we don't have scope sway, with one we can even have one shot one kill damage so long as we give enough scope sway to ensure that the only time someone is going to get shot this way in medium to long range is if the sniper have zeroed in on the target and stabilized his aim. Also make the sound louder perhaps, it will force snipers to pick his target cerefully since the soldiers when alarmed will move about getting into cover and such and made a shot impossible except under extreme circumstances.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-03-10 11:54

Zepheris Casull wrote:it's a pitty that we don't have scope sway, with one we can even have one shot one kill damage so long as we give enough scope sway to ensure that the only time someone is going to get shot this way in medium to long range is if the sniper have zeroed in on the target and stabilized his aim. Also make the sound louder perhaps, it will force snipers to pick his target cerefully since the soldiers when alarmed will move about getting into cover and such and made a shot impossible except under extreme circumstances.

also god knows how much that has come up......

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-03-10 19:58

Rhino, what would be better would be a sticky for all the most common suggestion topics.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-03-10 23:31

lonelyjew wrote:Rhino, what would be better would be a sticky for all the most common suggestion topics.

still probaly get them as most ppl that just join up iconore them. Most of the time i do a search for topics.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-03-11 17:00

Yeah, ideally though, the sniper rifle should have nearly 100% accuracy WITH a scope sway that varies depending on stance. That way, distance would be more of a factor, and the biggest factor would be the skill of the sniper.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-11 17:03

Normally, I wouldn't want any deviation at all, expect for bullet drop or a little wind, but is it possible to implement scope-sway that varies depending on the stance?

Because if it is, that would be the best