Class Suggestion (LENGTHY!)

Suggestions from our community members for PR:BF2. Read the stickies before posting.
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Pence
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Post by Pence »

lonelyjew wrote:For the scout/recon class, maybe they should be given a parachute as well. That way they could be paradropped into enemy lines from a littlebird or transport chopper.
I have got a squad idea:
Infantry squads do the capturing and assaulting buildings, ect.
Helicopter pilot squad transports the men and if it can be done they should get points for it [Covers Troops].
APC squads drive the men into battle and completes objectives with them [Covers troops].
Tank squad's drive and operate the various tanks to cover the men and APC's from enemy tanks/armoured vehicals [Covers APC].
Attack Helicopter squad covers the men and vehicals on the ground. [Covers all ground units].
Pilot squad pilots jets and cover all ground units from air bombardment and covers the choppers from being shot down [Covers everythink].

It will alwase work better if you keep cirtan things in mind.
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Cerberus
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Post by Cerberus »

Consider the following:

When standing, the scope will either move alot, or the deviation will be horrible

When crouching, the scope won't move as much, or the deviation will be somewhat bad

Prone, the scope won't move much, or the deviation won't affect the shot too much

Sniper rifle would be extremely impractical in these modes.

Prone with bi-pod set up: Scope won't move at all, almost no deviation (unless it's bullet drop)

It would take 6-10 seconds to set up the bipod and get in the position to fire, so the sniper would only be able to take a few shots before being found, and they would only be able to afford to take out valuable targets, such as a mortar operator, heavy machine gunner, M2 gunner, RPG-7 gunner, etc

Sniper needs to be used for taking out key targets and reconaissance, IMO
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SiN|ScarFace
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Post by SiN|ScarFace »

good ideas.
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eggman
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Post by eggman »

Please keep the discussion going Gents - great stuff!

The PR team has participated in the thread and is also observing this as a guide forward on how we can rework the class structures.

Not saying it's going to match this exactly, but uh.... it might hehe.

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00SoldierofFortune00
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Post by 00SoldierofFortune00 »

Cerberus wrote:Consider the following:

When standing, the scope will either move alot, or the deviation will be horrible

When crouching, the scope won't move as much, or the deviation will be somewhat bad

Prone, the scope won't move much, or the deviation won't affect the shot too much

Sniper rifle would be extremely impractical in these modes.

Prone with bi-pod set up: Scope won't move at all, almost no deviation (unless it's bullet drop)

It would take 6-10 seconds to set up the bipod and get in the position to fire, so the sniper would only be able to take a few shots before being found, and they would only be able to afford to take out valuable targets, such as a mortar operator, heavy machine gunner, M2 gunner, RPG-7 gunner, etc

Sniper needs to be used for taking out key targets and reconaissance, IMO
Very good idea which will keep the sniper class restricted to the more skilled players instead of the noobs that just want to get an easy kill after they got killed up close or something.

Also, here are some screens of an M16 with modifcations to it and an aimpoint which could be used in this mod.

SWAT Mod
http://www.totalbf2.com/images.php?img= ... /swat1.jpg

http://www.totalbf2.com/images.php?img= ... /swat2.jpg

Source
http://www.totalbf2.com/
Pence
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Post by Pence »

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Very good idea which will keep the sniper class restricted to the more skilled players instead of the noobs that just want to get an easy kill after they got killed up close or something.
Try playing Call of Duty....
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beta
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Post by beta »

Cerberus wrote:Consider the following:

When standing, the scope will either move alot, or the deviation will be horrible

When crouching, the scope won't move as much, or the deviation will be somewhat bad

Prone, the scope won't move much, or the deviation won't affect the shot too much

Sniper rifle would be extremely impractical in these modes.

Prone with bi-pod set up: Scope won't move at all, almost no deviation (unless it's bullet drop)

It would take 6-10 seconds to set up the bipod and get in the position to fire, so the sniper would only be able to take a few shots before being found, and they would only be able to afford to take out valuable targets, such as a mortar operator, heavy machine gunner, M2 gunner, RPG-7 gunner, etc

Sniper needs to be used for taking out key targets and reconaissance, IMO
Sounds like what a Sniper should be doing to me ...

The question is : How do we implement this "style" of play with snipers instead of the "run around and throw claymores a people" style right now?

My solution was to SEVERLEY restrict the Sniper's kit; low amount of ammo (must conserve, and only kill priority targets), no CQB weapons OR self-defense "mines", the ONLY thing the Sniper excels at (and very well) is the undetected, long range kill.
SiN|ScarFace
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Post by SiN|ScarFace »

beta wrote:the ONLY thing the Sniper excels at (and very well) is the undetected, long range kill.
If only all the noobs who like sniper actually tried to play it like that. When guys are getting kill after kill using an assault rifle, the guy who spent 10min to kill one guy with one glorious shot feels unimportant.

The sniper should be deadly accurate but rof should be painfully low. It should take the scope at least 10 sec to stabalize so you would not be able to rush a shot. when prone you should only have like a 45ged angle of fire when you move the mouse. If you move by pressing a key, your aim would have to resettle. To reward this effort the shots should be 1 hitter quitter. As you wouldnt be able to drop guy after guy it would work. Like it is now when you go down you are not dead, but "critically wounded" and if you dont get help you will die. We have all seen iraq sniper vids and when they get hit they might not die but they sure as fuck go down and usually need medical assistance.

Sniper just needs to be serious work but when you put forth the effor you should also be rewarded.
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Pence
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Post by Pence »

I beleave the sniper should have one clip (Yes one magazine!), that will make the pesky noob snipers go for the single far shot, rarther than the hundreds of anoying kill spree's!
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow »

Wouldn't be very realistic. Personally I think they should carry more ammo and just be limited in the amount of snipers that can exist on the battlefield at one time (i.e. pickup kits). I'm sure real snipers go into the bush with far more than 2-3 spare clips, as they are supposed to stay in one place for a while without resupply. Same deal for when designated marksmen come into play. At that point they stay with the squad and they're more like long range riflemen.
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SiN|ScarFace
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Post by SiN|ScarFace »

Snipers dont just carry any ammo, they carry hand made works of art. (well USMC anyway) and I doubt they get that much to take when they are trained to hit everytime.

Someone find out how much ammo they are issued. I bet its like 20 rounds.
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Pence
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Post by Pence »

SiN|ScarFace wrote:Snipers dont just carry any ammo, they carry hand made works of art. (well USMC anyway) and I doubt they get that much to take when they are trained to hit everytime.

Someone find out how much ammo they are issued. I bet its like 20 rounds.
I dont like snipers, i would never be one unless to try it out. Mabey its time for deletion?

The mod is focusing on a full assault force, not some sniper, recon or special forces guy doing a solo job and snipers get rewarded for being the lone wolf (seldom found before they shoot).... How is that going to incurage teamwork!?
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow »

Snipers are inarguably useful to their teams in two huge ways:

1) Effect on enemy moral.
2) Intel gathering.

Making the enemy think twice about moving down that street or through that valley or around that corner is a huge boost to the team. Same as alerting Bravo that they have an enemy tank collumn advancing on them, giving the squad time to lay mines, get an AT weapon into place and making sure they all have their heads down when it hits the fan.
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Pence
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Post by Pence »

So snipers in PR will gater inteligence for the team? Unlikely...

How is he going to relay his findings back and will anyone listen?
PR has the ultimate limitation of solo-jocky's to deal with and i think keeping snipers is a bad way to do it and althogh i once liked the recon class its no longer likeable - I like good street fighting teamwork not some Batman inpersonation especialy if Batman leaves Robin at home...
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00SoldierofFortune00
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Post by 00SoldierofFortune00 »

Have to agree with you on that one. People who are snipers don't do what they are suppose to do which is call out targets they see or armor. I always do this when I am sniper because they are good for long range recon while staying out of reach. But people are too busy killing to just simply point out the enemy location in case he gets away. If we could limit the amount of snipers on one side it would be good.

Also, Special Ops or Recon people in BF2 are way more useful than snipers and not lone wolves as much. They are good for taking out bridges or rigging a spot with C4, have a good gun, and are mobile. They are useful for flanking in a squad if you know how to use them and I would take one of them anytime over a sniper.
Pence
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Post by Pence »

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote: Also, Special Ops or Recon people in BF2 are way more useful than snipers and not lone wolves as much. They are good for taking out bridges or rigging a spot with C4, have a good gun, and are mobile. They are useful for flanking in a squad if you know how to use them and I would take one of them anytime over a sniper.
Mabey Engineers should have the C4. The name special forces should be taken out as in real life they are a seperate force.

Mabey we should stop going on about snipers anyway and Beta please come back, read all of the comments and add them to the origional post.
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beta
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Post by beta »

Beta please come back, read all of the comments and add them to the origional post.
The only new comments I see here are about quite specific things about the RECON class in general ...
A few modifications i have noticed might be better; Sharpshooter in the Rifleman class could be different, sharpshooters are snipers, mabey Grenadier takes his place and in turn his free slot in specialist class could be a medium anti-tank class (MAW) were as the light AT gets a LAW and heavy AT gets a deployable MILAN?
Eather way sharpshooter in the rifleman class sounds a bit snipey.
The Sharpshooter class is meant to be used as a designated marksman, so if there was a target out of the effective range of the rifleman and LMGs, the Sharpshooter would engage them.

The Medium anti-tank class sounds good, but you don't want to give the infantry TOO much vehicle killing power because vehicles will be quite empty if they are too easily destroyed.

I was thinking about adding a deployable AT weapon, I was just unsure of who would get it, it could take the place of the mortar, but personally I would rather have a mortar and use other vehicles to eliminate heavier vehicles.

Oh kwl, but im fearing gameplay. (64 Scouts hideing around the map)
I tried to make the classes as interdependant on eachother as possible without making it ridiculous, so no one class will be used more often than other, save except the rifleman (as it should be, you would see more rifleman in an army than LMG Gunners for example).
For the scout/recon class, maybe they should be given a parachute as well. That way they could be paradropped into enemy lines from a littlebird or transport chopper.
This seems to be more of an operation that an actual airborne unit would do, and in that case EVERYONE should have parachutes ... its along the same lines as the "Special Forces" classes in Vanilla BF2.
Consider the following:

When standing, the scope will either move alot, or the deviation will be horrible

When crouching, the scope won't move as much, or the deviation will be somewhat bad

Prone, the scope won't move much, or the deviation won't affect the shot too much

Sniper rifle would be extremely impractical in these modes.

Prone with bi-pod set up: Scope won't move at all, almost no deviation (unless it's bullet drop)

It would take 6-10 seconds to set up the bipod and get in the position to fire, so the sniper would only be able to take a few shots before being found, and they would only be able to afford to take out valuable targets, such as a mortar operator, heavy machine gunner, M2 gunner, RPG-7 gunner, etc

Sniper needs to be used for taking out key targets and reconaissance, IMO
Sounds like a good idea for a Sniper system, this could also transfer to the LMGs, since most LMGs have bipods.

Mind if I add this in?
Snipers are inarguably useful to their teams in two huge ways:

1) Effect on enemy moral.
2) Intel gathering.
I agree.
The mod is focusing on a full assault force
And depending on what kind of assualt force this is, snipers would be included.


The key is to balance the kits so that everyone can enjoy the game.

People who want to play solo and snipe? They have their sniper class, and if they try to do anything BUT snipe, they are going to have some serious problems. It's a fact that not EVERYONE wants to play in a squad at ALL times, but the mod should still be able to incorporate these people in the TEAM by making their solo actions help everyone else.

I like the idea of adding inscentives to do specific things, since most people seem to like the stats, have points awarding for the classes doing their jobs. A sniper would get points for spotting, medic for healing, Mortar for firing accurate rounds at a specified target, etc. The better you convince people to play their roles, the better the experience will be.
Pence
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Post by Pence »

An easy way of makeing people play for teamplay. Have a ranking system that only records team winning or loseing and not personal score.

Exsample;
I have 19-1, i have only lost once.
He has 1-19 *Thinks about more teamwork*

Heres another exsample on what the scoreboard should look like;
_____________________________________________________
|_TEAM_1_(USMC)____________|_TEAM_1_(MEC)____________|
|_Name____Time in game|Deaths|_Name___Time in game|Deaths|
|------------------------------------------------------------|
|Eddy_______47:00______4____|_Cant_______47:00_____17__|
|Veron______47:00______22___| Legless_____47:00______8___|
|Mercia_____47:00______4____| Caracal_____47:00_____1____|
|Lemming____2:00_______1___| Hillbilly______47:00______3___|
|_____________________________________________________|
|Team Score:_____200_______|Team Score:____40__________|
|_____________________________________________________|

This way personal score is not everyones prioritory and you can clearly see 'Lemming' has not been in as long. They will also focus on survival too, to keep there death score low.
Teamwork assured.
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00SoldierofFortune00
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Post by 00SoldierofFortune00 »

Yea I agree. I think people will get too concerned over the ranking thing and it may have a negative effect on the gameplay like vanilla Bf2. Having a scoreboard would increase the amount, if even by a little, of the teamplay in the game since people seem to be drawn to rankings for some reason. Maybe have one where it shows the squad leader with most hours or most wins on the team or maybe squad kills.

Also, I like the idea of engineer having c4. It would be another asset to their already heavy pockets with all their weps and such. But on the other hand, that would take away the spec ops "special function." Or maybe just have two kits where you get one switched out for another.

And little birds aren't meant for people to jump out of, they are meant to be landed on an area for people to get out of.
Pence
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Post by Pence »

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote: But on the other hand, that would take away the spec ops "special function." Or maybe just have two kits where you get one switched out for another.

And little birds aren't meant for people to jump out of, they are meant to be landed on an area for people to get out of.
Read the quote below, the Special forces class has been taken out.
I think the class system for PRMM should be re-done.

Now, we've got 8 classes, right? Each of them has an unlock, right? So, basically, there are 16 available kits.

I've got a nice long list of my recomendations for those kits:

NOTE: ALL classes have: knife, 2 individual bandages

*REVISION 5*


RIFLEMAN CLASS
----------------
Rifleman - Assualt Rifle - 8 + 1 mags
- 4 hand grenades
- 2 smoke grenades
- 2 ammo bags

Marksman - Assualt Rifle w/ optics - 8 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 1 ammo bag


SPECIALIST CLASS
------------------
Grenadier - Assualt Rifle w/ grenade launcher - 6 + 1 mags
- 5 + 1 grenades
- 2 flashbangs

Light AT - Assualt Rifle - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 2 flashbangs
- 1 Light Anti-Armour Weapon


AUTOMATIC RIFLEMAN CLASS
----------------------------
LMG Gunner - LMG - 2 + 1 box mags

LMG Spotter - Assualt Rifle - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 2 box mag ammo packs
- Binoculars


COMBAT SUPPORT CLASS
------------------------
Combat Medic - Assualt Rifle - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 smoke grenades
- defibulator - 2 + 1 batteries
- 15 bandages

Combat Engineer - Carbine - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 4 C4 packs
- 2 AT mines
- 2 AP mines


FIRE SUPPORT CLASS
--------------------
Mortar - PDW - 2 + 1 mags
- deployable mortar - 9 + 1 rounds
- 1 deployable mortar rearm

HMG - PDW - 2 + 1 mags
- deployable HMG - 200 round belt
- 2 deployable HMG rearms


ANTI-VEHICLE CLASS
--------------------
AT - PDW - 2 + 1 mags
- portable AT system - 2 + 1 rounds
- Binoculars

AA - PDW - 2 + 1 mags
- portable AA system - 1 + 1 rounds
- Binoculars


PILOT CLASS
------------
Air Crew - Pistol - 2 + 1 mags
- 1 RED smoke grenade
- Binoculars

Armour Crew - Pistol - 2 + 1 mags
- 1 GREEN smoke grenade
- Binoculars


RECON CLASS
-------------
Scout - Carbine w/ scope - 4 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- laser designator

Sniper - Sniper Rifle - 3 + 1 mags
- Binoculars



Now, obviously some of this needs explaining.


Acronyms
---------
LMG = Light Machine Gun
HMG = Heavy Machine Gun
PDW = Personal Defense Weapon
AT = Anti-Tank
AA = Anti-Air
AP = Anti-Personnel
SL = Squad Leader
LGB = Laser Guided Bomb
MLRS = Mobile Rocket Launch System


Some extra Notes:
-----------------

-Air Crew pilot jets and helos
-Ground Crew pilot MBTs, APCs, other armoured vehicles
-Anyone can pilot Transports, HMGs, Mortars
-All kits can be passengers on vehicles (APCs, Helis, etc.)
-Batteries on Defibulators have 5 uses per charge
-Individual bandages are used on the player, no one else
-Combat Medics CANNOT heal themselves with the medic bandages
-Supply Trucks and Supply Crates re-arm all kits (not vehicles)
-Vehicles resupply and repaired at special "stations" (garages, hangars, etc.)
-Rifleman ammo bags DO NOT re-arm LMGs, only re-arms mags, hand grenades, and smoke grenades
-ONLY box mag ammo bags and Supply Crates/Trucks re-arm LMGs
-Both types of ammo bags MUST be dropped to be used
-No wrench, only repairs are done at repair stations
-ALL classes have finite resources, they MUST be resupplied to continue to fight effectively
-Mortar and HMG re-arms work like the wrench, click and hold, 10 seconds to re-arm the HMG, 20 seconds to re-arm the Mortar
-Mortars use the Artillery system (interim until we get some REAL artillery )


MEDIC SYSTEM:
Defibulators revive the player to 25% health, under 50% health lethal bleeding begins. The individual bandage heals to 50%, the medic to 75%. Bandage healing is NOT stackable. To get the player's health to 100%, the player must heal at a medical vehicle/building.

ARTILLERY SYSTEM:
Similar to BF1942's system, artillery's scope has elevation and rotation "meters". When a request is made, coloured (different for each request) lines are displayed on the "meters" to show where the target area is. When the colured lines are put into the middle of each "meter", firing will result in a round on the target area.

LASER DESIGNATOR SYSTEM:
Click to turn it on, wherever it "hits" in the game world (limit to 500m, to prevent problems) will create a "lockable target", like the heat sources (jets, helis, oil flame), except this "lockable target" is used to LGBs and other laser guided munitions. Replace the "dumbfire" bombs on jets with LGBs, they cans till be dropped "blind", but with a laser designator, they will be VERY accurate. This can also be used for missles and rockets fire from MLRS's (and equivalent opposing army systems), and (at least for the US forces) laser guided artillery rounds (the regular "cannon" rounds that is).


Now since I have seen a couple of times the Devs say that Class Restricing is NOT POSSIBLE, I decided to come up with this as an option for a more balanced team. The key is to make a squad need a variety of classes to be the most effective.

For example, say a squad of 6 says "Screw you beta, we're going to have 6 LMG Gunners!", now, they will have an impressive amount of firepower, but no grenades (smoke or frag) and won't be able to heal eachother.

Now this system is far from perfect, it needs some rigorous testing (playtesting and otherwise) to find its flaws, but I think diversifying the classes is the way to go to get a good, balanced system.


Well, that's my idea. Comment.
Its true that Littlebirds are land and unload choppers mainly used by assaulting forces to land on roof's or confined spaces just like the Lynx is used were the larger helicopters cannot but to a lesser extent.
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