ClayGast ($parTacu$) Kit Idea

Silverwolf · Post by **Silverwolf** » 2004-10-19 06:27

nah, I liked wot I heard about it, I think it's basiclly just kit upgrades to weapons, like giving your M4 a silencer or bipod. Though I think there was also something about been able to getting access to more weapons, though don't quote me on that.

Post by **ArchEnemy** » 2004-10-19 08:53

If you take a closer look to that screenshot, you can see that this "buy mode" is (maybe only) for singleplayer

Silverwolf · Post by **Silverwolf** » 2004-10-19 11:04

No, don't think so, look again. Top tabs read Login/BFHQ/Multiplayer/Training/Quit. The BFHQ tab is the one that is open, n the sections tabs read Home/(can't make out)/Clan HQ/Forum. Now Home is the one selected, n the players profile is open, and at the bottom left is "Purchase New Content" n "Latest News".

From the look of the screen setup I'd say, when u run the game, the first thing you do is login to your profile and go from there. I'm guessing "Training" would be single player, but the "Purchase New Content" tab is located in you home section, so my guess would be that changes made would be universal to multiplayer n singleplayer, n I know I'v heard DICE say something about being able to unlock new content, including new weapons n weapon upgrades as you play, both in multiplayer n singleplayer, and I think it was linked to your rank n the medals you earn. Doesn't AA have a feature similar to this?

Hoss · Post by **Hoss** » 2004-10-19 20:24

I really dont want people having an advantage because they play so much more then me (aside from the fact that they have practiced more. Buying gear, and pre determined "hanidcaps" will turn me off from BF2 fairly quick.

So, it's a good thing we've got some mods coming for it! lol

Post by **ArchEnemy** » 2004-10-19 21:01

Silverwolf wrote:No, don't think so, look again. Top tabs read Login/BFHQ/Multiplayer/Training/Quit. The BFHQ tab is the one that is open, n the sections tabs read Home/(can't make out)/Clan HQ/Forum. Now Home is the one selected, n the players profile is open, and at the bottom left is "Purchase New Content" n "Latest News".

I really need some glasses

Ugly Duck · Post by **Ugly Duck** » 2004-10-19 22:51

Players that play more will gain there own advantages. Its already quite easy to tell a skilled/vetran player from a "noob". Giving alreaady skilled players an even greater advantage is not only a bad idea, but going to hurt marketing for BF:2. After a few months when we all have our stats and such up, whats going to happen to the new players that are starting fresh? Not only are they going to have to contend with better players. BUT they have to put up with inadequit stats compared to those of "vetran" players, wich is complete BS.

Players get good themsleves, they DO learn the weapons, they dont need a computer game to simulate that process for them. Take a look at RPG whores in DC. It didn't take a special code for these players to be able to snipe with an RPG. It took time.

Post by **ArchEnemy** » 2004-10-20 09:09

Maybe this can improve the teamwork, i mean if you're a newbie in bf2, you just play in a team (squad) and not solo, so you get skill points without having any experience.

Ugly Duck · Post by **Ugly Duck** » 2004-10-20 23:00

People dont think like that, if they HAVE to suck just because of some gay RPG element in a FPS they arent going to play. They are just going to crawl back to the game they came from. AA did it with their training, and SF status. And I have lost my acount 2 times in that game, what if that happend to someone. They are going to be FORCED to suck untill they can regain there status, wich may have taken them days, weeks, or even months to earn.

Silverwolf · Post by **Silverwolf** » 2004-10-20 23:29

It all soughta depends on just how they do it. If all it's doing is say replacing an M4 with G36, then the weapons will still be balanced, n adding upgrades ain't nessicarily that bad either. Say u'v got a sniper, been using the M21, n now he unlocks a bipod n better scope for the M4, now he can outfit the M4 to make it a bit more accurate when he's prone, n he can see a bit further. Yes, it's going to be a faster firing sniper, but it still won't have the range of the M21, or be as accurate. Or, say u unlock a QD silencer for the M4 or a silencer for ur side-arm, sure, now u can fire without giving off a muzzle flash, or making much noise, but the player still has to have the skill to put those new abilities into use. A silencer wont help a player much if he still goes running around in the open, utilising a silencer requires a change in the way you play for it to be effective.

If done properly, the 'buy' mode will greatly improve the gameplay. However, yes, if they don't balance it right, ppl will get turned off. But hey, thats what patches are for

marto · Post by **marto** » 2004-10-21 03:53

actually there is a good point there. You can put pretty much anything you want into the mod, but if it is bad the community will respond and you can change it.

Post by **BlakeJr** » 2004-10-21 19:18

Hello again...

It all soughta depends on just how they do it. If all it's doing is say replacing an M4 with G36, then the weapons will still be balanced, n adding upgrades ain't nessicarily that bad either. Say u'v got a sniper, been using the M21, n now he unlocks a bipod n better scope for the M4, now he can outfit the M4 to make it a bit more accurate when he's prone, n he can see a bit further. Yes, it's going to be a faster firing sniper, but it still won't have the range of the M21, or be as accurate. Or, say u unlock a QD silencer for the M4 or a silencer for ur side-arm, sure, now u can fire without giving off a muzzle flash, or making much noise, but the player still has to have the skill to put those new abilities into use. A silencer wont help a player much if he still goes running around in the open, utilising a silencer requires a change in the way you play for it to be effective.

If done properly, the 'buy' mode will greatly improve the gameplay. However, yes, if they don't balance it right, ppl will get turned off. But hey, thats what patches are for

So, what you're saying is that if you "whore" a weapon you'll earn points that you can convert into add-ons for that weapon?
I know that was generalising, still though...
I say NO to any system that will give an unfair amount of advantage to veteran versus newbies. The veterans will be plenty skilled without being "awarded" with new gear.
As a matter of fact I don't see where a system where you buy your own add-ons can be realistic? Is that something that soldiers do generally? Buy bi-pods, suppressors (silencers for you John Woo wannabes

) and other kit?
If it is, it should be in the mod but for all players newbies and vets alike.

Sorry if I'm more incoherent than usual.... Baaad day at work...

Silverwolf · Post by **Silverwolf** » 2004-10-25 13:23

BlakeJr, ur missin the point, if done properly, it won't create any unfair advantage. If they do it right, the game will still be balanced, n all it'll do is create a bit of diversity in the game, which is probably wot DICE is trying to do with it. Like I said, adding mods to a weapon isn't nessicarily goin to make it more powerful, just giv it more versatility. And no matter how many mods u add to a weapon, it's still goin to make no difference unless the player knows wot they're doing.

eg. Adding a better scope to an M4 isn't going to improve it's accuracy, it's only going to allow the player to see a bit further, but as vet players will know, the further away the target is ur trying to hit, the harder it is to hit, no matter how far ur zoomed in, ur sight-drift in comparison to the target will remain the same, scoping in further simply allows u to see the target that bit better (unless they put in a 'hold breath' feature like FarCry did). So, it balances out, with a betta scope, u may be able to see further, but to hit those targets u wouldn't hav been able to see so well before, u still need to be more accurate. It all comes back to a players skill.

And as to being realistic, DICE has already told us they're primary focus is creating a game ppl will enjoy, realism is secondary. Realism is what this mod is for remember

. And besides, Special Forces soldiers at least, do change their weapons kit dependent on their mission. I doubt these are mods they buy themselves, they would be provided for them.

So if u really want, u could say that this 'buy' system DICE is introducing will simply give players more of an ability to make their weapons more 'mission specific'. And, for those 'John Woo wannabes', the abilities to use silencers would make even more sence in this mod, seeing as the team is making it so that u don't know who killed u, from where, or with wot, the ability to use stealthy tactics will be all the more useful

. N yes, it is realistic, just look at the way many Special Forces operate, stealthy strikes, in fast, hit the target, get back out, would work well for in CTF games

, the other team would neva know wot had hit them

.

Ugly Duck · Post by **Ugly Duck** » 2004-10-25 19:05

But its a realism mod. And REAL soldiers dont get to choose what kind of gun they get, or to that matter what they put on it. The only guys who get that are special forces. And not everyone gets to be special forces, only the "special" people do, hence the name.

Hoss · Post by **Hoss** » 2004-10-25 21:20

say NO to any system that will give an unfair amount of advantage to veteran versus newbies. The veterans will be plenty skilled without being "awarded" with new gear.

This is exaclty my point. Veterans will be better due to thier practice. No need for any help. I just dont want anyone "meddling" with shooting accuracies, weapon efficiencies or what have you due to some 12 year old kid who is home for the summer and plays every minute of every day. At least my reactions, and so called skills built up over time from playing games can help me. They can't if the code is giving a handicap.

Silverwolf · Post by **Silverwolf** » 2004-10-26 22:06

Ugly Duck wrote:But its a realism mod. And REAL soldiers dont get to choose what kind of gun they get, or to that matter what they put on it. The only guys who get that are special forces.

Special Forces are REAL soldiers

Hoss wrote:I just dont want anyone "meddling" with shooting accuracies, weapon efficiencies

This is what I keep trying to say. I don't thing they are going to be "meddling" with any of that stuff. Like I said, putting on a different scope does nothing for making the gun more accurate at all, it simply changes the players view distance. Adding a bipod would mean greater accuracy if the player goes prone, n sets up the bipod, but all that mucking 'round is going to make him a target if he's in combat, something like that is only going to work well with snipers (n a lot of snipers get bipods in RL anyway, it's just a feature they've neva added to the BF series, yet). N supressors, although making the gun quiter, are far more likely to make the gun less accurate, not more. N none of the above make the weapon more powerful, they just allow for variety in gameplay.

Like I said previously, plenty of times, this 'buy' feature will do nothing to give anyone any sought of unfair advantage, if done properly. N if they do make it unbalanced, hey, it's a first release, thats what patches are for, n mods. Don't just dismiss it's value offhand, wait till u've tried it out, it might surprise u, n if it doesn't, tell DICE, n the lovely team of this mod

, n get it changed. Anyways, I'm over trying to convince u boys

, believe wot u will.

Post by **BlakeJr** » 2004-10-27 04:14

I get you now Silverwolf.
But, hehe, if the "new and improved" scope for the M4 will not give you any advantage beyond allowing you to see further then it should, in my opinion, be available to all. The noobies will shun it because they won't be able to hit anything and the vets will love it because they will have learned how to use it properly.

Perhaps a new class could be introduced? A SpecialForces class and to be able to use it on line you have to complete an off-line trainingmap and you will have to score pretty darn high to qualify for the SF class on line...
I don't know.... It's just an idea...

Post by **ArchEnemy** » 2004-10-27 12:35

You mean an 8th class?

Post by **BlakeJr** » 2004-10-27 15:46

Well, yes, I suppose.
It could be to give people an incentive to practice off line and learn the basics. In return for that they get access to the Special Forces class on line.
Probably too complicated but it was an idea and it was mine!

Hoss · Post by **Hoss** » 2004-10-27 21:38

Like I said, putting on a different scope does nothing for making the gun more accurate at all, it simply changes the players view distance.

And because of this, a player who has played the game longer then someone else will be able to shoot them before he can even be seen due to the higher powered scope. Is this not an advantage?

Unless they just allow you to unlock new skins, I dont see a way to keep the players with more playing time from getting an advantage. It's going to end up like one of those quest/magic games where there are specific "noob" servers so newer players can fight people on thier own level and get the attributes needed to compete with more veteran players.

I hear what you are saying silverwolf. And I can't wait to get the game in my hands to see how they have delt with all of these matters. But for some reason I can't help but think negatively on these new "features". I hope you, and the game prove me wrong.

Post by **ArchEnemy** » 2004-10-29 18:27

BlakeJr wrote:Well, yes, I suppose.
It could be to give people an incentive to practice off line and learn the basics. In return for that they get access to the Special Forces class on line.
Probably too complicated but it was an idea and it was mine!

Not at all, i coded a simular thing yesterday.