proper use of APCs ....perhaps?

[fuzzhead]

I agree that currently APCs are not being used as they should in game. But saying that, I think they have come a long way, cause they are being used much more often as infantry support than they were in v0.6 (where they were basically just driven into a ditch and abandoned and used as a mobile bunker).

I think rhino has stated the main problem: lack of more extensive comms (inter-squad VOIP) and the inability to increase the size of a squad (both of which is hardcoded BF2 engine shortfalls). Having 2 guys in an APC and 4 infantry mounted is not very effective, cause your really lacking infantry support on the ground, as well as not having a clear infantry leader on the ground as most of the times the SL will feel the need to be the APC driver. Also the voip is also usually flooded with conflicting comms: the infantry on the ground communicating and the gunner and driver communicating - this is too hectic and not ideal...

Another big issue is the Heavy-AT currently, which turns most APCs into hunks of metal in a flash on most maps, because the HAT is so effective and easy to use right now.

Anyone who wants to use APC's effectively, should think about using teamspeak. Prety much all popular PR servers have a teamspeak server that you can use for exactly this purpose. But the important thing to note is that when using teamspeak, ONLY the 2 squad leaders need to be in the channel. The other squad members should use the in-game VOIP. This means the infantry squad leader and the APC squad leader have a useful comm-link so they can communicate important info when needed, but the comms wont be flooded with all kinds of unnecesary ****.

Heres some videos demonstrating the use of such a system:

WeGame.com - Al Basrah Mechanized Infantry: APC Component April 4th 08 by Civie

YouTube - Al Basrah Mechanized Infantry: Infantry Component April 4th 08 by Jounin Spriggan

YouTube - Al Basrah Mechanized Infantry March 27th (Part 1 of 12) by From-A-Far

I think allowing officers ability to drive an APC is a bad idea and will make APCs used even less effectively. Officers will be much more likely to drive an APC to a destination and just abandon it there, not something we want to see happen again like in v0.6.

I'm also very interested in seeing APC's and infantry work together (Ive played many hours with both working in unison and its really awesome) however I dont see this suggestion being beneficial at all I only see it causing more issues. Its a good discussion though keep the feedback coming..

[kilroy0097]

If squads were 8 soldiers instead of 6 I think you would see a lot more use in the APC for forward infantry transportation and support. When the Driver/Gunner crew of an APC can speak with the 6 man Infantry squad then there is effective support. When the two crew are in another squad and a full infantry squad with them is in another squad then there is no effective communication. The only way to fix this would be to have all 8 players on Teamspeak together.

Which has been done before and from personal experience is very effective.

Edit add: I didn't read the whole thread and so I ended up saying exactly what fuzzhead already said in the post above this one.

[ostupidman]

Gonna have to defend the insta-HAT kill on APC. Considering that heavy AT is designed to take out main battle tanks, you can't really expect an APC to stand up to it. Go look at some youtube videos of SRAWs or equivilents and how much pure carnal mayhem they cause on T-72s and such...now transfer that over to a lighter armored vehicle......insta-kill.

[fuzzhead]

I dont think the answer for HAT is to lower the damage but rather to make it more difficult to manuver into position and make target acquisition and launch preparation take a bit longer.

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

Is it possible to make HAT a two man operation ?
It would still leave the HAT as the primary APC killer but would require more teamwork to deploy.
I know.................hardcoded !

[Rhino]

I know.................hardcoded !

why ask then?

and the problem with that then fuzz is that you also reduce its effectiveness against tanks

[MadTommy]

and the problem with that then fuzz is that you also reduce its effectiveness against tanks

Hmm not so sure.. Tanks generally move slow, hang about in a good firing position, with the attitude, i'm big bad and gonna own you....whilst APCs tend (or at least should) be more mobile, faster moving & cautious.

Therefore a HAT with a longer setup time would still allow it to be effective against tanks but less so against APCs.

Be nice if it took ages to setup initially but still had the same reload time. What do you think?

[AnRK]

It's already one hell of a setup time anyway.

Think people have addressed the problem already anyway, it's a player problem not a game problem. In tournament and clan games APCs are used very differently, and almost always involve transportation in their role in battleplans. As whoever it was said a while ago, and has been repeated quoted since, "you can't fix players".

[Rudd]

Is it possible to make HAT a two man operation ?
It would still leave the HAT as the primary APC killer but would require more teamwork to deploy.
I know.................hardcoded !

Well, take away the 2nd HAT missile.

[Saobh]

Well, take away the 2nd HAT missile.

Eggman explained the problem again not long ago, it gets buggy with only 1 HAT missle.

[77SiCaRiO77]

well, the LAT alreay have one rocket , and is not very bugged (if by bugged you mean the problems with the reload animation) , i think it just a sacriface to a better gameplay .

[Antonious_Bloc]

Plus H-AT also needs to be effective against tanks.

In-game one shot won't do a thing to the armored behemoths.

[Darkpowder]

si i come with this idea , what about if we make the APC "driveable" by Squad Leaders with an officer kit??

Nightmare scenario, someone just forms a new squad and one-man "tards" the APC into / onto a flag / mine way into the open vanilla style and the team loses the asset.

Its vey easy to have a SL, Crew, Crew, Medic, MG, Rifleman/whatever type squad and have them successful.

Our clan and our regular players with us do it all the time.

If the squad needs support from other squads the driver in our squad goes into transport mode and picks up other players, and if we need defence against light vehicles or attacking bunkers the apc goes into destroy mode.

So as long as the apc can be allowed to forget about enemy apc's / armour its a simple prospect.

You need to think very hard why the crewmen kits were brought in, its the best feature of the mod.

My only tiny thread of support is the specific recon role of the scimitar, but i can put up with not having snipers/specops/riflemen driving them just to avoid the vehicle stealing that would occur if they dismounted to form their OP, recon position and some frankly... n00b just rushed off with their transport.

Thesedays the ammount of times you have to stay in the drivers seat of your transport no matter what it is to prevent someone running off with it is quite incredible.

I think all players (probably me too need to think hard about what the attendent vehicles near an objective are doing there and what harm it might do if you rush off with it leaving squads horribly slowed down and perhaps with no means of fire support or maneuvre.