Class Suggestion (LENGTHY!)

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2006-03-13 06:51

its great to hear about some of the upcoming possible changes in .3 !

I would like to hear everyones opinions on making vehicles more of an asset for your team! what does everyone think??

I think as it is right now, its like the vehicles are toys, or power-ups that you get every minute or so, to help you get more kills.

i would love to see that mentality changed, to something more along the lines of what is more true to real life.

Post by **eggman** » 2006-03-13 06:52

OK correction to what I said earlier.... it IS possible to limit repair / resupply by vehicle TYPE (not "model" as such).

I noticed a line in one of the repair / resupply objects:
ObjectTemplate.addVehicleType 2

At least I *think* so. If there's a good enough reason, I'll try verify (but have a bajillion PR things to work on).

Here is how BF2 defines vehicle types:
VEHICLE_TYPE_ARMOR = 0
VEHICLE_TYPE_AVIATOR = 1
VEHICLE_TYPE_AIRDEFENSE = 2
VEHICLE_TYPE_HELICOPTER = 3
VEHICLE_TYPE_TRANSPORT = 4
VEHICLE_TYPE_ARTILLERY = 5
VEHICLE_TYPE_GRNDDEFENSE= 6
VEHICLE_TYPE_PARACHUTE = 7
VEHICLE_TYPE_SOLDIER = 8
VEHICLE_TYPE_NIGHTVISION= 9
VEHICLE_TYPE_GASMASK = 10

It might even be possible to add Kit Types and even ammo types
assuming this:
ObjectTemplate.addVehicleType 2
will work like this:
ObjectTemplate.addKitType 2
ObjectTemplate.addWeaponType 2

Weapon Types:
WEAPON_TYPE_ASSAULT = 0
WEAPON_TYPE_ASSAULTGRN = 1
WEAPON_TYPE_CARBINE = 2
WEAPON_TYPE_LMG = 3
WEAPON_TYPE_SNIPER = 4
WEAPON_TYPE_PISTOL = 5
WEAPON_TYPE_ATAA = 6
WEAPON_TYPE_SMG = 7
WEAPON_TYPE_SHOTGUN = 8
WEAPON_TYPE_KNIFE = 10
WEAPON_TYPE_C4 = 11
WEAPON_TYPE_CLAYMORE = 12
WEAPON_TYPE_HANDGRENADE = 13
WEAPON_TYPE_SHOCKPAD = 14
WEAPON_TYPE_ATMINE = 15
WEAPON_TYPE_TARGETING = 16
WEAPON_TYPE_GRAPPLINGHOOK=17
WEAPON_TYPE_ZIPLINE =18
WEAPON_TYPE_TACTICAL =19

Kit Types:
KIT_TYPE_AT = 0
KIT_TYPE_ASSAULT = 1
KIT_TYPE_ENGINEER = 2
KIT_TYPE_MEDIC = 3
KIT_TYPE_SPECOPS = 4
KIT_TYPE_SUPPORT = 5
KIT_TYPE_SNIPER = 6

Just thought I'd correct myself, no idea if it adds value to the discussion.

Don't create too much work for us with that info heh

egg

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-13 07:51

What exactly is it about my system that you find unbalanced?

I don't know ... they would only get ONE bandage that would only stop their bleeding, to get healed they would have to see a medic or medical vehicle.

I've read your posts and the impression they gave me is that you think there is too many classes and it is too complicated.

SOF- The medic system as it is is fine as it is now, but there is a real lack of good medics and if you make them need to find something in order to heal, it would just complicate mattters. I only go squad leader in this game and it is really hard to get people to go medic as it is instead of support or the like.

This seems a little contradictory, you're saying that the BF2 classes, as they are, make people not work together and pick "useless" classes, yet you say why change the classes since they are fine as they are

- No, you misunderstood my post. I said that there are some useless classes in the game when they are in squads such as sniper or engineer. The amount of classes we have now are good except for the alt ones I suggested along with the pilots.

If the players INSIST on spawning into your squad which does INFANTRY work, simply kick them saying that this is an INFANTRY squad not an AIR SUPPORT squad.

- It seems that you don't play squad leader much because you constantly get people who join, rejoin, or don't follow you in your squad and kicking doesn't always work.

There are other armed forces besides the USMC you know

- The other forces are pretty fictional since we don't know that much about them or what they would actually call their people. We know what the USMC does though.

Either use other vehicles to counter the enemy vehicles or make an AT Hunter/Killer squad ...

- Lol, with the lack of AT already on a team it would be pretty hard to try and make this "Hunter/Killer" squad. No one wants a pistol with no nades and vehicles only will seperate and weaken your squad.

Yes, Combat Engineer and Mortars AREN'T supposed to do heavy fighting, they are COMBAT SUPPORT and FIRE SUPPORT respectively, if "heavy fighting" is needed, pick a class with more ammunition and a more powerful weapon.

- You don't understand what I am saying. You will get a large amount of players going these classes and that will up the chance of them picking these classes and being in squads. The grenade launcher is basically a handheld mortor and it can be used that way if you get a support gunner to stand behind you and resupply you. This is only good if you are close to the enemy flags though. If we need fire support, then use artillery. You are making classes which people will pick and either camp with, or not be helpful or useful to the team. You can't control everyone in the game who is not in your squad, so why up the chances of this game becoming a camp fest or filled with even more noobs would go up. The point is, you can't pick classes for your teammates and they will often pick classes that are not right for the situation and are only thinking about themselves.

In this suggestion there is only really TWO new classes added, the PILOT class and the RECON class. The others have just been remade and rebalanced to fit a more realistic portrayal of a combat unit.

Sure have.

- Then you would of known what I mean. I guess you haven't seen a team of 10 mortars sit near a bridge and rape the hell out of it or all sit across the map on the high ground and just mortar. I have been on both sides of the mortar and it isn't partically fun to be on a team of camping guys instead of assaulting or moving up or the ones getting mortared.

Solution: NO uncappable flags.

Yes, people will still try it, BUT making a level that doesn't have bases where it is impossible to effectively defend from OR easily get out of WILL make this happen less.

- This isn't always benifical to the map balance. Take Karkand 2 for instance. The MEC have a huge disadvantage on this map unless the MEC are half decent. Make their main capable and the game will be over easily from a bunch of US that can just go around to their flag with little resistance.

Camping the planes/helos WILL happen unless a RADICALLY different system is made, simply putting the kits next to the plane will not help, as people will just TK for the kit instead of the plane.

- If one guy tks for a plane than ask for him to be kicked or just deal with it. We have tking for vehicles as it is but not as severly as VBF2. Having 2 pilot kits next to a aircraft is better then having their own kit and everyone spawning as one. At least with only two kits next to teh aircraft, the other guys can go off and fight if they want to instead of being stuck with a noncombat kit.

Seriously, would all the pilots who didn't get to their jet just decide to go and swim/boat to the mainland? I doubt it, many would simply wait till the plane spawns again and try to get in again. If the pilot kit was placed next to the plane, they would do the EXACT same thing.[/QUOTE]

- Actually some people do go off because they will not wait and this often happens when squads go for aircraft. I can see it now, that a couple of guys in your squad will randomly spawn as pilots, miss the aircraft, and then leave the sqaud with a bunch of useless teammates.

- The point is that you need the best balance of a squad you can get when the game first starts or close to when it first starts because that first attack is the one that counts. If you fail at the first assault, there is a good chance the enemy will take teh flag or make it much harder for you to successfully make it to it.

-As it is now, there is already somewhat a lack of teamwork when it comes to getting a good diversity of kits in your squad. If you make all these classes, it will only increase the likelyhood that you will get a class not efficient enough for assaulting in your squad at random. And when you are trying to fight, it is pretty hard to keep telling your squad to change their kit from one class to another or stick with one. I play only as squad leader and encounter this. Someone tell me this doesn't happen to them when they play with strangers or strangers without mics and then I will buy your system. People don't seem to realize this game isn't about points and go classes which they feel like playing instead of picking one that actually benefits the squad you are in or the team.

-I am not saying don't pick a sniper or engineer etc. I am just saying you need to know their roles and play them when you aren't in a squad. Engineer is for fixing things so play him as a lone wolve so you can stay behind and fix an apc or man an apc and protect a squad while not taking up a spot in it.
Why play sniper in a squad when their whole purpose is to be stealthy, silent, and take out targets at a distance when you are assaulting and coming up close to someone?

-These are just some of the problems now we have and making a pilot class for people to pick would only highten this problem along with a mortarman etc.

-There just needs to be alt classes which have the different things you need for a mission in order to keep the game simple. Your suggestions are just too ambishious for this community and game in general. People still don't know how to play this game correctly so why give them something else complicated to mess up.

-I don't know, it could just be me but I see this happen everytime I play the game. if they can't work together with the system we already have now which is good, than I don't trust they will with your more advanced one.

And IMO, vehicles don't need to be more part of the team. They only serve to split up squads, increase useless 1 man bum rushes for the flags, or spawn camping in them from across teh map with the increases tank zoom. They are good for somethings though, but they really don't fit the maps that well and people don't know how to use them correctly.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-13 17:40

beta wrote:RESUPPLY SYSTEM:
Infantry squads are resupplied in a few different ways. They can be resupplied by air-dropped Supply Crates, a Supply Vehicle, or by their Squad Vehicle. The Supply Crate resupplies by standing next to it, the Squad Vehicle resupplies ONLY by sitting in the vehicle, and the Supply Vehicle resupplies by standing next to it. The Squad Vehicle is a vehicle that can fit a whole squad, and is meant to be used with the squad, ie: LAV, HMWV, Vodnik, etc. The Supply Vehicle is a large truck (ie: 5 ton truck for US) that only carries supplies, a driver, and one passenger, if it is destroyed, it makes a BIG boom since it has ammunition for all types of infantry weapons.

w00t... Big bang!

Seriously thogh, the army uses mechinised infantry, every squad has a IFV to travle in and to return to. The IFV covers them wile they assault enemy areas. It makes sence to make the IFV able to resupply the troops it fights with but when it runs out of supplys itself and a light supply vehical has to restock its supplys it must get cover from the surounding APC's and tanks.

A platoon of IFV's amounts to 4 vehicals, working together with there troops will alwase evolve into victory unless the other team is useing the same tactics.

Braddock096 · Post by **Braddock096** » 2006-03-13 18:09

What about a limited number of spawns for the higher end vehicles? E.G a tank can only spawn twice per map, and once its gone, its gone.

Evil_Eye · Post by **Evil_Eye** » 2006-03-13 21:07

Genius! i wonder if BF2 lets you edit this sort of stuff!?

I think the scout class carbine should be silenced, for close range sniping.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-13 22:25

Braddock096 wrote:What about a limited number of spawns for the higher end vehicles? E.G a tank can only spawn twice per map, and once its gone, its gone.

How long vehicals spawn time is, is a verry hard decision.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-14 20:16

Warrior Section Vehicles are able to carry and support 7 fully equipped soldiers together with enough supplies and weapons for a 48 hour battlefield day in nuclear/biological/chemical conditions. Alternatively 8 moderately armoured soldiers can

I have a sheet describeing the Warrior when it could fit 8 fully armed soldiers but this sheet was printed in 1999 when Warriors were armoured of aluminium.

3 (commander, gunner, driver) + 7 troops but the driver is going to get out anyway wile the gunner covers them.

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-03-15 01:45

The medic system as it is is fine as it is now

Now in 0.25 it is MUCH better, in 0.2 (when this suggestion was made) it was pretty terrible, I might consider simply keeping the 0.25 medic system.

- It seems that you don't play squad leader much because you constantly get people who join, rejoin, or don't follow you in your squad and kicking doesn't always work.

I have lead squads before and I have had the same problem, so when in a server and I have found a squad that works, I LOCK the squad to prevent annoying people from joining.

No one wants a pistol with no nades and vehicles only will seperate and weaken your squad.

This is 100% your opinion, some people like playing the AT class, others like vehicles, other snipers, etc.

Vehicles don't have to seperate squads, you CAN stay close to the vehicles and SUPPORT the infantry, most people CHOOSE to drive in wildly since they seem to still be under the "vanilla influence", because the PR vehicles still work well when used like in vanilla.

If we need fire support, then use artillery.

Mortars are artillery, if you are referring to the "commander artillery", the more player operate stuff the better. Perhaps having player-controlled vehicle artillery (howitzers, MLRS, etc.) instead of the mortar class, substituting the Mortar for ..... what? I can't think of anything at the moment.

or not be helpful or useful to the team.

Again, Mortars CAN be useful to the team, if used properly.

I don't know about you, but I can't "eye" a mortar round to hit a target 500m away, thats what the ARTILLERY SYSTEM is for, they would come from SLs requests.

The point is, you can't pick classes for your teammates and they will often pick classes that are not right for the situation and are only thinking about themselves.

Simply don't play with them in your squad, ASK them to play as a squad, and ASK them to be a specific kit, if they don't reply or don't want to be that kit, try to find people in your squad that do want to use that kit.

This is EXACTLY the kind of reasoning that (IMO) ruined vanilla BF2: Well, we have to make it dumbed down and easy for all the "stupid" (I use the term lightly) people so they can have instant fun.

I guess you haven't seen a team of 10 mortars sit near a bridge and rape the hell out of it or all sit across the map on the high ground and just mortar.

Both of those examples sounded like bad map design to me ...

Make their main capable and the game will be over easily from a bunch of US that can just go around to their flag with little resistance.

Since you are already editing the flags,why not have the MEC start with TWO flags, the main base and the first one ... repeat until balanced.

- The point is that you need the best balance of a squad you can get when the game first starts or close to when it first starts because that first attack is the one that counts. If you fail at the first assault, there is a good chance the enemy will take teh flag or make it much harder for you to successfully make it to it.

That is the basis of a "competitive" game.

Changing the classes to make the player skill less needed is just going to result in long, drawn out stalemate games.

- Actually some people do go off because they will not wait and this often happens when squads go for aircraft. I can see it now, that a couple of guys in your squad will randomly spawn as pilots, miss the aircraft, and then leave the sqaud with a bunch of useless teammates.

Ask them on next spawn to come in as whatever kit you need, if you need it RIGHT AWAY, ask them to suicide, if they insist on flying the jet, then either have your squad be a "jet squad" or ask them to join a different squad since this squad is not for jets.

And when you are trying to fight, it is pretty hard to keep telling your squad to change their kit from one class to another or stick with one. I play only as squad leader and encounter this.

Squad leaders are supposed to lead, depending on the experience of the squad, that leading may have to be more intensive (ie: ASKING them to spawn as a specific kit).

People don't seem to realize this game isn't about points and go classes which they feel like playing instead of picking one that actually benefits the squad you are in or the team.

Don't have these types of people in your squad or try to "teach" them the values you are asking for.

People still don't know how to play this game correctly so why give them something else complicated to mess up.

Progress will NEVER be made if we have this mentality.

OK correction to what I said earlier.... it IS possible to limit repair / resupply by vehicle TYPE (not "model" as such).

Excellent ... many a wondorous thing can be done from this ...

Post by **eggman** » 2006-03-15 02:17

Hey Beta,

Glad to see the discussion continuing

I did encounter one problem with the resupply stuff..... hopefully this exmplanation makes sense.

In BF2 you can determine pretty much anything as a supply object. Meaning that thing can supply other things with ammo & health. You can also determine a fixed amount of ammo and /or health supplies avaialble from that supply object. So it can run out of supplies.

However.... I ran into a problem when I tried to resupply the supply object. By that I mean that if I said there were 200 units of "virtual ammo" available from a supply object, when all 200 are gone I can't find a way to replenish those supplies.

The practical impact of that is that if a supply vehicle run out of supplies, it can't go back to a facility to be resupplied.

Or at least I currently can't figure out how to do it and nobody has had any brilliant ideas on it at this point.

Still early in 'sperimenting with it tho.

egg

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-03-15 03:13

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']Hey Beta,

Glad to see the discussion continuing

I did encounter one problem with the resupply stuff..... hopefully this exmplanation makes sense.

In BF2 you can determine pretty much anything as a supply object. Meaning that thing can supply other things with ammo & health. You can also determine a fixed amount of ammo and /or health supplies avaialble from that supply object. So it can run out of supplies.

However.... I ran into a problem when I tried to resupply the supply object. By that I mean that if I said there were 200 units of "virtual ammo" available from a supply object, when all 200 are gone I can't find a way to replenish those supplies.

The practical impact of that is that if a supply vehicle run out of supplies, it can't go back to a facility to be resupplied.

Or at least I currently can't figure out how to do it and nobody has had any brilliant ideas on it at this point.

Still early in 'sperimenting with it tho.

egg

It's good to know that it can be done, I changed the RESUPPLY SYSTEM ( with this new info, it might only be temporary

) mainly because I wasn't sure if the whole resupplying the supplies would work, turns out my fears were realized.

If you guys do find a way to replenish the limited supplies, that would be the best way for supply vehicles/crates/etc. to work, but infinite supplies will work fine for now.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-15 05:53

Beta- This is 100% your opinion, some people like playing the AT class, others like vehicles, other snipers, etc.

-You will find that almost 80%-90% of people agree with me on this one and it is just not my opinion. Why play with a class that has only a couple of pistol magazines and 3 rockets when they could play spec ops and still get a pistol or assault? Trust me, this is not just my mentality and this is the reason we have major armor build ups on some levels.

Beta- Vehicles don't have to seperate squads, you CAN stay close to the vehicles and SUPPORT the infantry, most people CHOOSE to drive in wildly since they seem to still be under the "vanilla influence", because the PR vehicles still work well when used like in vanilla.

Vehicles are noisy, easy to spot, and easy targets if they move slowly. I am not against vehicles, but I do believe they should be more limited because they do break up squads most of the time and why even move a slow moving vehicle next to the squad when it is an easy target unless you are going into immediate combat in which you can then use it for cover as well as support.

Beta- Mortars are artillery, if you are referring to the "commander artillery", the more player operate stuff the better. Perhaps having player-controlled vehicle artillery (howitzers, MLRS, etc.) instead of the mortar class, substituting the Mortar for ..... what? I can't think of anything at the moment.

Like I said before, I saw this with BFV, and it is not good to have players control something. Why do you think they gave the artillery to one person? Because there is more of a chance of one person using it correctly then the rest of the team and if he messes up, mutiny him. You can't mutiny the whole team. Just put in artillery if you want fire support because I rather trust someone I can talk to on a mic rather than a bunch of other more random people.

Beta- Again, Mortars CAN be useful to the team, if used properly.

I don't know about you, but I can't "eye" a mortar round to hit a target 500m away, thats what the ARTILLERY SYSTEM is for, they would come from SLs requests.

When people mortared before, they did it up close and from far but less often. Up close is where the real damage would come from.

Beta- Simply don't play with them in your squad, ASK them to play as a squad, and ASK them to be a specific kit, if they don't reply or don't want to be that kit, try to find people in your squad that do want to use that kit.

You make it sound easy but it isn't that easy. I have been playing since BF2 came out and as squad leader most of the time and dealing with and organizing your squad is half the battle most of the time. Ask anyone who has been on my squad.

Beta- This is EXACTLY the kind of reasoning that (IMO) ruined vanilla BF2: Well, we have to make it dumbed down and easy for all the "stupid" (I use the term lightly) people so they can have instant fun.

Actually, that "REASONING" is correct. There are more ignorant and less educated people in the world in general and that applies to even this game. You need to make it simple, but also open to more balanced choices so people can still have fun, and work together. Adding in more complicated stuff only ups the chance of it being abused more in the game. The rank system for instance. Blackhawk with mini guns which was suppose to protect the BH for its purpose of transporting men across the battlefield. Vehicles became weapons of mass camping on levels like Karkand and by the time you organize 3 people to hit it with at least 3 rockets, it has done much damage. Nade launchers also.

Beta- Both of those examples sounded like bad map design to me ...

I was talking about the flag areas of the maps specifically. Yea, the level design in general added to part of it, but trust me this can happen on almost every level.

Beta- That is the basis of a "competitive" game.

Changing the classes to make the player skill less needed is just going to result in long, drawn out stalemate games.

The kits are already balanced. They have weaknesses and advantages. Your adding in of kits which will not help the team much or pollute the field with many unuseful kits for properly defending or attacking. We have all the core classes we need now except for a pilot class. You can add in different wep loadouts to the classes and you basically have a marksman or rifleman there, but he will just be called assault. We all know what the assault basically is.

Beta- Ask them on next spawn to come in as whatever kit you need, if you need it RIGHT AWAY, ask them to suicide, if they insist on flying the jet, then either have your squad be a "jet squad" or ask them to join a different squad since this squad is not for jets.

Again, you have either not lead many squads or are really optimistic since this will not always happen or rarely occurs. Organizing your squad is half the battle before you can face the enemy effectively. Ask anyone who has been on my squad.

Beta- Squad leaders are supposed to lead, depending on the experience of the squad, that leading may have to be more intensive (ie: ASKING them to spawn as a specific kit).
I do all I can for my squad and you are still making it sound easier then it really is.
Don't have these types of people in your squad or try to "teach" them the values you are asking for.

I cannot teach them "values" in the middle of a battle or train them, because they have to learn this on their own from expierence. They have to learn this on their own and just IMO, most people now cannot handle the kits they already have, so why give them a bunch of others to mess around with. The majority of players don't even have a k/d ratio with one weapon, so why give them another when they haven't mastered the first?

Beta- Progress will NEVER be made if we have this mentality.

This mentality is what is BF2. You can act as postive as you want, but this is the truth about BF2 and videogames in general. You usually get more idiots then teamplayers on and this will only increase as more people come from
VBF2. Most have a hard time handling that game and will have an even harder time handling this one. I am not saying everyone here or who comes over sucks, I am just saying that generally there are more "negative" players than positive ones.

Beta- Excellent ... many a wondorous thing can be done from this ...

I did not say this.

I have led squads from day 1 and this is just what I encounter. Others may encounter other people who play this game well, but I see the majority of players not working as a team or playing this mod as it was intended. I am not the only one who thinks that and that is why there is another topic called "General play quality takes a dive." This stuff is just going to complicate the game even more for the new people who come in and make teamwork a less viable option when others can find a way to take out people without having to work together. I am not saying that I am against additions to classes or anything like that.

IMO, I just think that their should be additions to classes such as alt weps such as a heavy machinegun etc. and a pilot class next to a chopper instead of one the player can pick. I have played for a long time and have never seen any of this stuff change along with others who would see the same way, so why would any of these changes change the gameplay now?

The negatives just outweigh the postives on the list complied of changes.

Also, not sure how to do the quotes thing solo.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-15 18:51

beta wrote:It's good to know that it can be done, I changed the RESUPPLY SYSTEM ( with this new info, it might only be temporary ) mainly because I wasn't sure if the whole resupplying the supplies would work, turns out my fears were realized.

If you guys do find a way to replenish the limited supplies, that would be the best way for supply vehicles/crates/etc. to work, but infinite supplies will work fine for now.

About the supply's, It is ok for squad vehicals to have a limited re-supply stock, its also ok that the IFV's re-supply stock cannot be resupplyed itself. I imagen it's a finiet supply in real life. 48 hour battles are not the norm.

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-03-15 23:14

-You will find that almost 80%-90% of people agree with me on this one and it is just not my opinion. Why play with a class that has only a couple of pistol magazines and 3 rockets when they could play spec ops and still get a pistol or assault? Trust me, this is not just my mentality and this is the reason we have major armor build ups on some levels.

Followed by ...

Vehicles are noisy, easy to spot, and easy targets if they move slowly. I am not against vehicles, but I do believe they should be more limited because they do break up squads most of the time and why even move a slow moving vehicle next to the squad when it is an easy target unless you are going into immediate combat in which you can then use it for cover as well as support.

Ok, I do agree that vehicles are easy targets when moving with infantry, thats what the infantry are for, but thats a whole new discussion.

In your first statement you said that 80-90% of people WOULD NOT want to play as AT, then you went on to say that vehicles are easy targets .... easy targets to who? Since no one is playing AT ...

organizing your squad is half the battle most of the time.

I'm not arguing this, part of that organization COULD be removing non-teamplayers from your squad ...

Actually, that "REASONING" is correct.

Perhaps for a game meant to sell millions of copies, but NOT to a niche mod ...

I don't know about you, but I would sure like less of the "more ignorant and less educated people in the world" playing PRMM.

since this will not always happen or rarely occurs.

This is what YOU (the SL) would do, so if it "rarely happens" its not the rest of the squad's fault.

Beta- Excellent ... many a wondorous thing can be done from this ...

I did not say this.

???

This was meant for [R-DEV]eggman ...

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-17 00:05

Beta- Ok, I do agree that vehicles are easy targets when moving with infantry, thats what the infantry are for, but thats a whole new discussion.
In your first statement you said that 80-90% of people WOULD NOT want to play as AT, then you went on to say that vehicles are easy targets .... easy targets to who? Since no one is playing AT ...

Easy targets from the tanks and apcs.

Beta- I'm not arguing this, part of that organization COULD be removing non-teamplayers from your squad ...

Again, you make it sound so easy. When someone doesn't want to go one class and doesn't listen to your commands, you can kick him but he will just do that to another squad most likely. Kicking does jack because they just come

Beta- Perhaps for a game meant to sell millions of copies, but NOT to a niche mod ...

If it applies to the game, it will apply to the mod as well.

Beta- I don't know about you, but I would sure like less of the "more ignorant and less educated people in the world" playing PRMM.

Well expect more of the ignorant and less educated players as PRMM gets more popular since they will just come from vanilla and noob the game up until they learn how to effectively play it, which will be a while.

Beta- This is what YOU (the SL) would do, so if it "rarely happens" its not the rest of the squad's fault.

It isn't the squad leaders fault if they will not follow him or listen to him. You can't force people to follow your orders in a video game.

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-03-17 20:40

Easy targets from the tanks and apcs.

They are just as loud, noisy and noticable as your vehicles ...

Well expect more of the ignorant and less educated players as PRMM gets more popular since they will just come from vanilla and noob the game up until they learn how to effectively play it, which will be a while.

Either that or they'll move on ... most of the "ignorant and less educated players" also have short attention spans.

It isn't the squad leaders fault if they will not follow him or listen to him. You can't force people to follow your orders in a video game.

But you CAN ask them to follow the orders or find a new squad ...

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2006-03-17 23:28

Beta- They are just as loud, noisy and noticable as your vehicles ...

- Yea, but they have armor and it is their main purpose to take on infantry and other vehicles except for aircraft.

Beta- Either that or they'll move on ... most of the "ignorant and less educated players" also have short attention spans.

- They are still playing and messing up BF2 aren't they? They have a short attention span so they come to games.

Beta- But you CAN ask them to follow the orders or find a new squad

- And then you will have to just wait even longer to find a more competent squadmate who might still not pick the kits you want him to do and instead the other useless kits or noncombant ones. You kick them and people will still come back, but even more than ever.

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-19 17:06

Beta's Legendary class system; Edited by Pence.
Featuring:spelling mistakes and L86 LSW with optic sight.

NOTE: ALL classes have: knife, 1 individual bandage

*REVISION 10*

RIFLEMAN CLASS
============
Rifleman
--------
- Assualt Rifle (L85A2 x4sight / M16 Ironsight / AK-101 Ironsight / AK-47 Ironsight) - 8 + 1 mags
- 4 hand grenades
- 2 smoke grenades

Marksman
---------
- Assualt Rifle (L86 LSW optic sight / M16 optic sight / AK-101 optic sight / AK-47 optic sight) - 8 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
-1 smoke grenade
-Binoculars
Note: L86 LSW's are now being fitted as DMR because of longer barrel.

SPECIALIST CLASS
==============
Grenadier
---------
- Assualt Rifle w/ grenade launcher (L85A2 Ironsight and HK AG36 / M16 Ironsight and M203 / AK-101 Ironsight and GP-30 / AK-47 Ironsight GP-25 ) - 6 + 1 mags and 4 + 1 grenades
- 2 flashbangs / Genades

Light AT
--------
- Assualt Rifle (L85A2 x4sight / M16 Ironsight / AK-101 Ironsight / AK-47 Ironsight) - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 2 smoke grenades
- 1 Light Anti-Armour Weapon ( LAW / RPG / Chin equivalent)

AUTOMATIC RIFLEMAN CLASS
======================
LMG Gunner
-----------
- LMG (L108A1 / M249 SAW / RPK-74 or PKMS or even the Negev
/ Type 95) - 2 + 1 box mags

LMG Spotter
------------
- Assualt Rifle (L85A2 x4sight / M16 Ironsight / AK-101 Ironsight / AK-47 Ironsight) - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 2 box mags for LMG Gunner
- Binoculars

COMBAT SUPPORT CLASS
===================
Combat Medic
-------------
- Assualt Rifle (L85A2 x4sight / M16 Ironsight / AK-101 Ironsight / AK-47 Ironsight) - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 smoke grenades
- defibulator - 2 + 1 batteries
- 15 bandages

Combat Engineer
----------------
- Carbine (L22A1 x4sight / M4 x4 / AKS-74U x4sight / QBZ-97 x4sight) - 6 + 1 mags
- 2 hand grenades
- 4 C4 packs
- 4 AT mines
- 2 AP mines
Note it might seem a big pack but engineers will only need to be used for ambushes.

ANTI-VEHICLE CLASS
================
AT
--
- PDW (P99 / 92FS / MR-444 / QSZ-92) - 2 + 1 mags
- portable AT system (MILAN / AT4 / Eryx / ect) - 2 + 1 rounds
- Binoculars

AA
--
- PDW (P99 / 92FS / MR-444 / QSZ-92) - 2 + 1 mags
- portable AA system (Unknown) - 1 + 1 rounds
- Binoculars

PILOT CLASS
==========
Air Crew
--------
- Pistol (P99 / 92FS / MR-444 / QSZ-92) - 3 + 1 mags
- 2 RED smoke grenade
- Binoculars

Armour Crew
------------
- (P99 / 92FS / MR-444 / QSZ-92) - 3 + 1 mags
- 1 GREEN smoke grenade
- Binoculars

RECON CLASS
==========
Scout
-----
- Carbine (Diemaco C7 / M4 x4 / AKS-74U x4sight / QBZ-97 x4sight) - 4 + 1 mags
- 2 smoke grenades
- laser designator

Sniper
------
- Sniper Rifle (L96 sniper rifle / M24 sniper rifle / Dragunov SVD sniper rifle / QBU-88 sniper rifle) - 3 + 1 mags
-1 phospherous granade / grenade
- Binoculars

RESUPPLY SYSTEM:
Infantry can be resuplyed by air-drop-crates, supply trucks, individual amunition bags, the Squad vehical (IFV's such as the Warrior) and supply chopper's witch are exsactly the same as the Squad vehical exsept its a helicopter (air-drop troops take note). The Supply Vehicle is a large truck/chopper that can ressuply EVERYTHINK! it only carries supplies, a driver/pilot, and one passenger, if it is destroyed, it makes a BIG boom since it has ammunition for all types of weapons.

In March 2005, the L85A2 was put through its paces against the M16, M4, AK-101, FAMAS G2 and G36E modern rifles. [citation needed] It outperformed all of them in accuracy (even without the SUSATs), reload speed (physically changing magazine on the move and static) and usability in urban and close-quarters combat (because of its shorter barrel and the ability to affix a bayonet). A2 upgraded versions also have a higher muzzle velocity. The AK-101 won reliability on multiple terrain, weather and climatic scenarios. The ranks in the test were:

1. SA80
2. G36E
3. AK-101
4. M16 family
5. FAMAS G2

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-03-19 18:26

Pence, I like that. Exactly, perfectly, like that. We just need class limits somehow.