Lets get rid of the airplanes

acadiancrusader · Post by **acadiancrusader** » 2006-03-11 07:06

if you take out vehicles, what do you have left? a poor-man's respawnable AA. the whole point of sticking it out with the ****-tastic engine that we call BF2 is to HAVE vehicles. even though i'm a grunt at heart and hate moving unless it's on my own two virtual feet, this game/mod can ONLY be successful if it fully implements vehicles. if you truly want infantry only, then i would suggest the HL2 mod called Insurgency (which should be released sometime in the very near future).

mrmong · Post by **mrmong** » 2006-03-11 11:15

you could balance them a little by making it so they have to land to rearm and repair instead of the magic fly slowly over the runway like in F zero

Post by **IRONxMortlock** » 2006-03-11 11:31

acadiancrusader wrote:if you take out vehicles, what do you have left? a poor-man's respawnable AA.

Actually, it would be a rich man's respawnable AA. AA is free.

I really like vehicles and aircraft. The team has put in a lot of time and effort modeling and texturing aircraft so I think it would be safe to assume that we will not be removing them from the mod.

da.SPAWN · Post by **da.SPAWN** » 2006-03-11 12:09

'[R-DEV wrote:IRONxMortlock']
I really like vehicles and aircraft. The team has put in a lot of time and effort modeling and texturing aircraft so I think it would be safe to assume that we will not be removing them from the mod.

you make me damn HAPPY

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-03-11 20:52

The only problem with vehicals is that on some maps there are too meany wile on others the is too little.

8+8+8+8 = 32, 32+32=64 Thats 8 squads of 8 take away 3 is 5....

What im trying to say is if all of the vehical drivers joined 3 squads and the infantry Joined the remaining 5 squads that should be fair so 24 vehicals per side would fit the bill for a 64 man server.

Evil_Eye · Post by **Evil_Eye** » 2006-03-13 21:17

I think the jets should be removed, but the helis should stay.

Peter-SAS · Post by **Peter-SAS** » 2006-03-14 11:42

Vehicles are fine, its the fact that they are an infinite supply in all of the maps, and also spawn about less than a minute after being destroyed. The mapping guidlines need to be applied to the custom maps, AND all of the stock maps, in time for the next release IMO.

You guys are right about the BF2 engine providing a great graphical experience, whilst at the same time having a comined land and air forces in an online enviroment. Brilliant. Its just gotta be limited, just as they are in real life. Many armies will not take tanks into dense, hostile, urban enviroments, because they can be hit from so many angles.

PsychoKillers · Post by **PsychoKillers** » 2006-03-14 15:27

Keep the planes. They paly close air support for squads under heavy attack. How do you think the iraqis feel when we bomb them? They dont ask for us to stop plane whoreing. Its part of the military. Maybe changeing the ordanence to 4-250 pound bombs or laser guided bombs would be cool. Even better idea! Change certain maps with ground air bases to have A-10's with 40 mill cannons and carry bombs that can be droped 1 by 1. Now that would be awesome.

TII · Post by **TII** » 2006-03-14 18:00

PsychoKillers wrote:Keep the planes. They paly close air support for squads under heavy attack. How do you think the iraqis feel when we bomb them? They dont ask for us to stop plane whoreing. Its part of the military. Maybe changeing the ordanence to 4-250 pound bombs or laser guided bombs would be cool. Even better idea! Change certain maps with ground air bases to have A-10's with 40 mill cannons and carry bombs that can be droped 1 by 1. Now that would be awesome.

How do the Americans feel when they're bombed by the Iraqi's... oh wait.

I think helicopters provide more than enough close air support, I'd rather see more of them than having a jet or two. The helicopters can be employed at least somewhat realistically, whereas the jets are pure 100% arcade bullshit in this game. Just like having two airbases 5 miles apart.

brando86 · Post by **brando86** » 2006-03-15 01:23

A Few critical points to cure the aircraft woes...
- lenghten regen times.
- lenghten rearm times to make it impossible to fly over the base and rearm your aircraft.
- i would even go to say that you must land before you could rearm.
-a cool idea would see if there is anyway that a support guy or engineer would have a way to have to be present and rearm much like an engineer repairs items. Of course this is really maybe out-there, but it would be realistic and promote more"squad involvement" and cooperation of the team.

just my two cents.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-03-15 01:54

IMPORTANT MESSAGE BELOW

It is not aircraft in general you hate, aircraft haters, it is merely fighter aircraft. They have no place whatsoever in a game such as Battlefield 2, where the amount of airspace renders the concept of air superiority irrelevant.

Fighter aircraft should be replaced by the A-10, Panavia Tornado, Harrier, and Frogfoot.

Beckwith · Post by **Beckwith** » 2006-03-15 06:36

ive gotten in spats with people over this several times, it drives me nuts. If you people want infantry combat there are alot of other games out there for you. the reason battlefield is unique and great is its all inclusive nature the fact that it captures every facet of combat. ill never understand why people want to take this away. just because you dont like getting bombed doesnt mean you should run around demanding its removal.

ive never objected to making them "more realistic", but to take aircraft out is to take away from battlefield as a hole. i also disagree with those who say fighters should be removed.

again if you want infantry combat play AA something of that nature. PRMM servers frown apon the other aspects of battlefield which is one reason ive not played on them very much. it seems that since all the servers only seem to run infantry maps, plus people dont want armor to be used. that people now think thats the goal of this mod. if you look at the media page its obvious the intention is to add aircraft there for i dont think theyll be removed anytime soon.

to say this gun or that gun is unrealistic and should be removed is one thing. but to say all armor or aircraft should be removed is asinine. people just want something they dont like to be removed and use realism as an excuse.

by taking out aircraft by deeming them unrealistic is throwing the baby out with the bath water. if you want to limit the use of aircraft in certain maps is one thing, every mod should have a good mix of infantry armor and all inclusive maps. but to take them out all together is a joke.

Again alot of you have not payed attention to the Devs goals for this mod. this mod isnt about realism at all cost. its about a MORE realistic Battlefield expirience. The difference being to improve apon the game not turn it into something else entirely.

People come in here and bring there personal agendas out and try and get things they dont like taken out, they use realism as an excuse. it drives me up a wall. Personally i dont think snipers are a realistic part of BF2 and probably could go without. but I dare anyone here to look through my 1,400 posts and find one that demands snipers be removed entirely.

brando86 · Post by **brando86** » 2006-03-15 07:35

I believe keeping the aircraft is the best idea, and switching them out with more able close air support aircraft is a great idea, lets hope that the renderers are hard at work on the concepts. Take for example trying to lock up a MIG or SU, before you got a lock tone you are strafed or bombed, furthermore they fly out of sight and then turn around and have a go again. The ground to air defence is really inaffective. I think it would be awesome to find a way for an implementation of stinger missles maybe. To counter act this, make Flares on command without a reload, but maybe less effective.

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-03-15 10:24

kudos beckwith!! i wholey agree with everything you stated!

im getting real sick of infantry only maps, i think its only because i play at night when the PRMM games are 4 on 4 or so which yeah, i dont want to see armour or planes on that setting. but id like to see a bit of armour on 32 player maps, and maybe a heli.

id also like to see 64 player maps with quite a bit of armour and helis and jets.

i agree with beckwith, taking things out like aircraft is just absurd. i think air craft would fit PERFECTLY if we make it so they have to land to rearm, and give them the right armements and such. and i cant wait ot see the future of PR where we will see this.

TII · Post by **TII** » 2006-03-15 17:36

My problem with the jets is the fact that we have no anti air that's worth a **** on 90% of the maps. Add in some more Linebackers and some Avenger HMMVWs, but then you have the problem of helicopters lasting .01 seconds in the air.

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2006-03-15 23:23

Its nice to see there are people on my side, there have been a lot of posts like this, but finally i can easily end them with this'

'[R-DEV wrote:IRONxMortlock']

I really like vehicles and aircraft. The team has put in a lot of time and effort modeling and texturing aircraft so I think it would be safe to assume that we will not be removing them from the mod.

This is the saving grace right here.

I think now the AA is effective, sometimes i just think that people hop into an AA for 5 secs and expect to shoot down anything they find

, it should take some skill to use AA, just like how it takes skill to fly in Prmm, that is if you ever get the chance with the way servers run things.

Sgt. Jarvis · Post by **Sgt. Jarvis** » 2006-03-16 06:57

Hmm idk, I do think about how they should be taken out, and the helicopters can own the skies but the aircraft piss me off in this game and it's pretty rediculous. Oh, maybe it's in part due to the fact that ingame the aircraft have 300 bombs...

Figisaacnewton · Post by **Figisaacnewton** » 2006-03-16 07:02

My 2 cents: BF2 is a great engine because it can use all of this differtn vehicles blah blah blah.

but

we don't need supersonic jet fights RIGHT ABOVE our infantry city combat.

we need more realistic maps, in terms of layouts, and more realistic vehicles.

a10s and frogfoots can realisticaly be done in existing maps, but an f18? no way.

fighter battles imo belong in fighter battle only maps, like DC no fly zone, or stuff similarilly themed.

Post by **NikovK** » 2006-03-16 09:12

I must confess, I wouldn't mind ultra-high performance figher jets being removed and replaced with ground attack planes. But just remember that vehicle choices are really made map-by-map, and just because my maps won't feature jet fighters doesn't mean they'd be inappropriate on a different map. So if ground attack fighters were availible to me as a mapper, I'd put those in and add AAV's instead of fighters to shoot them down.

Zantetsuken · Post by **Zantetsuken** » 2006-03-16 10:02

yes DC No Fly Zone is the name of the DC map somebody was asking about earlier - the only thing that pissed me off about that map was later game's/mod's release (in months, years time) it seemed like the only servers running that map at any short interval where CTF and people just ran in, grabbed the flag, then you saw some crazy *** shit where somebody would come in flying by the flag pole and the guy that stole the flag would jump in the jet and be on his merry was across the map as a passenger

also, that map seemed to chug more/lag more than most of the other maps...

and about the A10 - somebody said something about a 40mm cannon - its 30mm the GAU 8 "Avenger", IIRC usually loaded with about 150 rnds of mixed tracer, incendiary, and AP/anti-tank rnds...